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F. Guffey · March 9, 2012, 10:36 AM

Thedad, wait on scrapping the stainless, there is injected molding as a means of manufacturing, in the old days fishing lures were made the same way with the aid of a huge press and the model (lure) sandwiched in-between aluminum blocks.

I understand your design, it is not that I disagree because I understand the logic behind the additional work. I am the fan of bullet hold, a case can not have enough bullet hold, others are fans of neck tension, a different standard.

To accomplish the same goal (objective) in determining the length of the chamber (and knowing you are sacrificing a case, I do not hesitate to dedicate 50+ ) you could have stopped at the plug and not added the means of removing. That leaves you with pulling the plug/tool out of the case mouth and a reduced purchase (nothing to get ahold of), back to the sacrifice case with the short neck: Pull, some insist on pulling, I don’t, there is pulling and there is pushing, to speed up your effort you could drill the primer pocket/flash hole to a diameter that would accommodate a means of pushing, cleaning rod, dowel, you could drill a hole in the bench,work stand etc., mount a short rod in the bench/work stand, this would allow you to use both hands for better control when pushing the plug/tool out of the case. Understanding when using the modified case with the tool it is designed to be used while extended and compresses (shortens) when chambered.

Gets complicated: For those that can keep up with two thought as one time, forget the bolt, leave it out, use a push rod to push the tool/plug out of the case until it hits the lands, stop, ALMOST! the same thing, the length of the case plus the extended plug will indicate the length of the chamber LESS! head space. Again, that does not lock me up, I never thought precision gages were made on Mars, I have always believed precision tools were/are made by humans, I guess that is the reason when someone runs out of ideals he says, “THIS STUFF IS NOT ROCKET SCIENCE” or “KEEP IT SIMPLE”.

This is not for everyone, Thedad, you have a lathe, I have 2 plus, and I said I make tools, not for machines but for reloaders that understand the incline plane/threads, case sizing and forming. I have forming dies, lots of forming dies, again, If I had one forming die it would be the 308 W, because it is short. When forming cases (with a forming die) the shoulder is erased and formed further back, tools used to check the length of a chamber does not need a shoulder, all that is necessary is a case that is all neck, but the purpose of forming the shoulder back (moving the shoulder back, and for those that are listening? sounds like a conflict) is to get it out of the way. Forming a case by moving the shoulder lengthens the neck and at the same time shortens the case body from the head of the case and and shoulder (and that is the reason the shoulder is considered ‘out of the way’),

After forming the case with a long neck carefully attempt chambering, the neck should hit the throat and require effort to advance the bolt, it is possible to seat a bullet backwards in the modified case to support the neck and make it more difficult to chamber if the modified case is too long, for those that are stingy with cases and refuse to make sacrifices, they can seat the ‘turned around’ bullet with a means of control, trim the case and attempt chambering and then continue the process until the case chambers without collapsing the mouth of the case, and do not forget, the chamber supports the case, but, it is possible to squat/crush the case slightly when the mouth of the case hits the end of the chamber, for those that are willing to make sacrifices can do the work in advance, move the shoulder back to get it out of the way then trim cases to a predetermined length, start with .015 thousands too long and them trim other cases that are shorter by .003 thousands. doing so would give the reloader the equivalent of gages for case length from go-gage length to just beyond field reject length.

Nothing changes when determining the length of the chamber from the bolt face to the bullet (ojive) contact at the rifling, except, do not move the shoulder back, use a standard full length sized case, again, I am the fan of bullet hold, others choose to ‘squidify’ as in shred the neck to reduce neck tension? And I ask “WHY?” go to all the effort to reduce bullet hold when bullet hold will/would allow the reloader to use the modified case as a transfer when adjusting the seater die to seat the bullet off the lands in thousands. I know and understand how impressive it sounds when someone says “I seat my bullets with the Redding seater die with the dial indicator on top......etc..”

I am the fan of transfers, standards and the verifyer, nothing like making an adjustment and verifying the adjustment afterwards.

F. Guffey

March 9, 2012, 10:36 AM	#16
F. Guffey Senior Member Join Date: July 18, 2008 Posts: 7,249	Thedad, wait on scrapping the stainless, there is injected molding as a means of manufacturing, in the old days fishing lures were made the same way with the aid of a huge press and the model (lure) sandwiched in-between aluminum blocks. I understand your design, it is not that I disagree because I understand the logic behind the additional work. I am the fan of bullet hold, a case can not have enough bullet hold, others are fans of neck tension, a different standard. To accomplish the same goal (objective) in determining the length of the chamber (and knowing you are sacrificing a case, I do not hesitate to dedicate 50+ ) you could have stopped at the plug and not added the means of removing. That leaves you with pulling the plug/tool out of the case mouth and a reduced purchase (nothing to get ahold of), back to the sacrifice case with the short neck: Pull, some insist on pulling, I don’t, there is pulling and there is pushing, to speed up your effort you could drill the primer pocket/flash hole to a diameter that would accommodate a means of pushing, cleaning rod, dowel, you could drill a hole in the bench,work stand etc., mount a short rod in the bench/work stand, this would allow you to use both hands for better control when pushing the plug/tool out of the case. Understanding when using the modified case with the tool it is designed to be used while extended and compresses (shortens) when chambered. Gets complicated: For those that can keep up with two thought as one time, forget the bolt, leave it out, use a push rod to push the tool/plug out of the case until it hits the lands, stop, ALMOST! the same thing, the length of the case plus the extended plug will indicate the length of the chamber LESS! head space. Again, that does not lock me up, I never thought precision gages were made on Mars, I have always believed precision tools were/are made by humans, I guess that is the reason when someone runs out of ideals he says, “THIS STUFF IS NOT ROCKET SCIENCE” or “KEEP IT SIMPLE”. This is not for everyone, Thedad, you have a lathe, I have 2 plus, and I said I make tools, not for machines but for reloaders that understand the incline plane/threads, case sizing and forming. I have forming dies, lots of forming dies, again, If I had one forming die it would be the 308 W, because it is short. When forming cases (with a forming die) the shoulder is erased and formed further back, tools used to check the length of a chamber does not need a shoulder, all that is necessary is a case that is all neck, but the purpose of forming the shoulder back (moving the shoulder back, and for those that are listening? sounds like a conflict) is to get it out of the way. Forming a case by moving the shoulder lengthens the neck and at the same time shortens the case body from the head of the case and and shoulder (and that is the reason the shoulder is considered ‘out of the way’), After forming the case with a long neck carefully attempt chambering, the neck should hit the throat and require effort to advance the bolt, it is possible to seat a bullet backwards in the modified case to support the neck and make it more difficult to chamber if the modified case is too long, for those that are stingy with cases and refuse to make sacrifices, they can seat the ‘turned around’ bullet with a means of control, trim the case and attempt chambering and then continue the process until the case chambers without collapsing the mouth of the case, and do not forget, the chamber supports the case, but, it is possible to squat/crush the case slightly when the mouth of the case hits the end of the chamber, for those that are willing to make sacrifices can do the work in advance, move the shoulder back to get it out of the way then trim cases to a predetermined length, start with .015 thousands too long and them trim other cases that are shorter by .003 thousands. doing so would give the reloader the equivalent of gages for case length from go-gage length to just beyond field reject length. Nothing changes when determining the length of the chamber from the bolt face to the bullet (ojive) contact at the rifling, except, do not move the shoulder back, use a standard full length sized case, again, I am the fan of bullet hold, others choose to ‘squidify’ as in shred the neck to reduce neck tension? And I ask “WHY?” go to all the effort to reduce bullet hold when bullet hold will/would allow the reloader to use the modified case as a transfer when adjusting the seater die to seat the bullet off the lands in thousands. I know and understand how impressive it sounds when someone says “I seat my bullets with the Redding seater die with the dial indicator on top......etc..” I am the fan of transfers, standards and the verifyer, nothing like making an adjustment and verifying the adjustment afterwards. F. Guffey