The Firing Line Forums - View Single Post - Civil Protective Orders Due Process and the 2nd

Suthern1 · October 21, 2017, 05:23 PM

Im not going to say or post anything that is not a part of public record already available on the internet.
The State is Texas in my case but the problem is a national one as these "PO" laws are similar (enough) everywhere that national is the level I would address though my comments are definitely about Texas Law.
No legal advice given or asked for just a discussion of opinions. That being said there are some empirical facts which the discussion can be founded upon.

Family Violence Protection Orders are considered "quasi-criminal".
Meaning they are a civil proceeding with potentially criminal consequences.

FVPO have reciprocity full faith and credit in all 50 states.
Meaning a Texas Order is observed and enforced everywhere else.

FVPO come with an automatic revocation of second amendment rights the same as felony convictions. And possession of a firearm by a person subject to A FVPO Is a:
FELONY UNDER FEDERAL LAW PUNISHABLE BY UP TO TEN YEARS IN PRISON
AND/OR A $250,000 FINE. 18 U.S.c. § 924.

Protection Orders are Public Record and can be seen by anyone on the internet. Employers, dating relations etcetera... In Texas they are part of a Database viewed by all law enforcement by running your license.

Protection Orders (I would dare to assume) are in 90% + cases prosecuted by the States Criminal District Attorney and the respondent is denied counsel because it is a civil proceeding. Though there is case law pointing to the "quasi criminal" aspect which requires appointed counsel it is ignored.

A states attorney is required to seek justice rather than conviction (hmm?)

Temp Protection Orders are issued Ex Parte meaning only hearing from one side. At which time your guns are taken.

Protective orders are Granted based upon a judges ruling and jury trial is not an option.

OPINION Justice is never served when a prosecutors has bully pull pit and the accused is often sacrificed on the alter of pop culture which says men are mean to women after a 2 minute presentation.
(There is a cartoon where the judge is handing the witness a box of tissues marked "protective orders" as the caption reads. "Your honor he kept hitting my foot with his testicles over and over")

That cartoon is the summation of PO procedures in my opinion and
The harm done to an accused from false allegations of violence are profound.

SO... as TDL who made many great observations, so aptly stated "...we actually incentivize even more instances of fraudulent restraining orders, because they make it even more beneficial for one party to file falsely as a effective tactic to give leverage in a divorce. It is a feedback loop: more harm to the subject of an order, more benefit in fraudulently accusing them. AND This is rarely if ever discussed in popular media coverage of restraining orders and the issue adding penalty/constraint to the subject.

By fighting this lack of due process I have not only challenged and won against my false accuser but against the States Prosecutors who bend and manipulate the presentation of the law and evidence to there advantage in effort to gain convictions. (of course I can speak only of those I have had to deal with) Others that are victims of the lack of process can too.

October 21, 2017, 05:23 PM	#6
Suthern1 Junior member Join Date: October 20, 2017 Posts: 12	Im not going to say or post anything that is not a part of public record already available on the internet. The State is Texas in my case but the problem is a national one as these "PO" laws are similar (enough) everywhere that national is the level I would address though my comments are definitely about Texas Law. No legal advice given or asked for just a discussion of opinions. That being said there are some empirical facts which the discussion can be founded upon. Family Violence Protection Orders are considered "quasi-criminal". Meaning they are a civil proceeding with potentially criminal consequences. FVPO have reciprocity full faith and credit in all 50 states. Meaning a Texas Order is observed and enforced everywhere else. FVPO come with an automatic revocation of second amendment rights the same as felony convictions. And possession of a firearm by a person subject to A FVPO Is a: FELONY UNDER FEDERAL LAW PUNISHABLE BY UP TO TEN YEARS IN PRISON AND/OR A $250,000 FINE. 18 U.S.c. § 924. Protection Orders are Public Record and can be seen by anyone on the internet. Employers, dating relations etcetera... In Texas they are part of a Database viewed by all law enforcement by running your license. Protection Orders (I would dare to assume) are in 90% + cases prosecuted by the States Criminal District Attorney and the respondent is denied counsel because it is a civil proceeding. Though there is case law pointing to the "quasi criminal" aspect which requires appointed counsel it is ignored. A states attorney is required to seek justice rather than conviction (hmm?) Temp Protection Orders are issued Ex Parte meaning only hearing from one side. At which time your guns are taken. Protective orders are Granted based upon a judges ruling and jury trial is not an option. OPINION Justice is never served when a prosecutors has bully pull pit and the accused is often sacrificed on the alter of pop culture which says men are mean to women after a 2 minute presentation. (There is a cartoon where the judge is handing the witness a box of tissues marked "protective orders" as the caption reads. "Your honor he kept hitting my foot with his testicles over and over") That cartoon is the summation of PO procedures in my opinion and The harm done to an accused from false allegations of violence are profound. SO... as TDL who made many great observations, so aptly stated "...we actually incentivize even more instances of fraudulent restraining orders, because they make it even more beneficial for one party to file falsely as a effective tactic to give leverage in a divorce. It is a feedback loop: more harm to the subject of an order, more benefit in fraudulently accusing them. AND This is rarely if ever discussed in popular media coverage of restraining orders and the issue adding penalty/constraint to the subject. By fighting this lack of due process I have not only challenged and won against my false accuser but against the States Prosecutors who bend and manipulate the presentation of the law and evidence to there advantage in effort to gain convictions. (of course I can speak only of those I have had to deal with) Others that are victims of the lack of process can too.