The Firing Line Forums - View Single Post - Advice for a friend that carries knives ONLY

leadcounsel · September 12, 2005, 02:21 PM

To be clear, you'd have to justify "deadly force" was being or going to be used, not based on what you believed the case to be, but what the reality of the situation was at the time. Getting beat up is alot different than getting stabbed or shot... hating to state the obvious.

In the defense of yourself or another you can ONLY use the minimum force necessary, and you can never counter non-deadly force with deadly force (unless you're in your own house and there's an intruder, but that's different).

So, if you saw someone getting pummeled with open fists, it would be a gray area and interfering with your gun (or knife) will open you up to criminal and civil liability. The same is true if a 6'3" 300 lb strongman was coming for you with open fists (unless you're in fear of rape or preventing rape, which is a special case). It's a gray area, and if you just shot a really big strong man with no weapon, even if he was threatening you and going to beat you up, it would be a very difficult case for self defense with a deadly weapon. You might win or might lose. It'd be alot better for you if he had a weapon, ANY weapon in his hand (even a beer bottle, stick, brick etc.). That's why I discourage my friend from carrying JUST a knife. If he draws that, it's open season on him.

I don't want to split hairs about the law, really, more to see if my friend should continue to just carry a knife or step up to a pistol or carry mace stop carrying anything for that matter.

To answer your other question, yes: If attacker is using non deadly force (open fists) and you draw a deadly weapon in defense (gun, knife, club), he is entitled to now be the defender and counter your AGGRESSION with deadly force, including a knife or gun in HIS defense.

NOW, you may win or lose at trial, but I would not want to have to make that defense argument as to why you drew on an unarmed man.

September 12, 2005, 02:21 PM	#3
leadcounsel Junior member Join Date: September 8, 2005 Location: Tacoma, WA Posts: 2,119	To be clear, you'd have to justify "deadly force" was being or going to be used, not based on what you believed the case to be, but what the reality of the situation was at the time. Getting beat up is alot different than getting stabbed or shot... hating to state the obvious. In the defense of yourself or another you can ONLY use the minimum force necessary, and you can never counter non-deadly force with deadly force (unless you're in your own house and there's an intruder, but that's different). So, if you saw someone getting pummeled with open fists, it would be a gray area and interfering with your gun (or knife) will open you up to criminal and civil liability. The same is true if a 6'3" 300 lb strongman was coming for you with open fists (unless you're in fear of rape or preventing rape, which is a special case). It's a gray area, and if you just shot a really big strong man with no weapon, even if he was threatening you and going to beat you up, it would be a very difficult case for self defense with a deadly weapon. You might win or might lose. It'd be alot better for you if he had a weapon, ANY weapon in his hand (even a beer bottle, stick, brick etc.). That's why I discourage my friend from carrying JUST a knife. If he draws that, it's open season on him. I don't want to split hairs about the law, really, more to see if my friend should continue to just carry a knife or step up to a pistol or carry mace stop carrying anything for that matter. To answer your other question, yes: If attacker is using non deadly force (open fists) and you draw a deadly weapon in defense (gun, knife, club), he is entitled to now be the defender and counter your AGGRESSION with deadly force, including a knife or gun in HIS defense. NOW, you may win or lose at trial, but I would not want to have to make that defense argument as to why you drew on an unarmed man.