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Old January 6, 2020, 11:21 AM   #11
zukiphile
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Join Date: December 13, 2005
Posts: 3,848
Quote:
Originally Posted by USNRet93
Quote:
An arrest is an executive action, not a judicial determination that you've relinquished a right. Whether the process was adequate doesn't arise because there isn't any judicial process yet.
I get that, and executive and not 'judicial', but I see videos of people getting arrested all the time and the LEO, 'don't know the outcome, judge will decide', but they are in jail, nonetheless.
Holding someone pre-arraignment pending a judicial process is distinguishable from judicial process itself. RFL involve problems in how courts themselves adjudicate the rights of parties.

Quote:
Originally Posted by USNRet93
Quote:
"but", the defendant is present for that.
Isn't the defendant present when LEOs seize his weapons?

Not getting to argue(NOT an attorney) but the 2 'seem' quite similar..w/o the RFL 'victim' going to jail.
A LEO executing a court order isn't holding a hearing. The problem comes in how the hearing resulting in the seizure order is conducted.

Quote:
Originally Posted by USNRet93
Quote:
The accused doesn't even know about the request or the hearing, so there is no opportunity to face his (or her) accuser, no opportunity to cross-examine, no opportunity to present a defense.
But isn't that the same as the girlfriend who calls the police about abuse? When he gets arrested and loses his 'rights', freedom?
It isn't the same because a LEO doesn't hold a hearing and isn't a judicial official. An arrested person does not lose his rights. He will be detained for arraignment.

That the executive in the form of state police have the power to detain and charge a person is a separate matter and can surely be abused. That doesn't transform their acts into an equivalent of a judicial process. On the contrary, judicial process is the remedy to those abuses, except in the early phase of an RFL process because it is ex parte.
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