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bamaranger · January 20, 2021, 10:02 PM

I've had quite a bit of experience with females and the 12 ga pump shotgun firing buckshot and slug loads. Off the rack guns and full power ammo were literally punishing for a number of female trainees of small frame. Getting a stock cut (shortened) to correct LOP and a high quality recoil pad are essential to acquiring proficiency and not getting kicked so severely and repeatedly that the shooter looses confidence and is intimidated beyond repair. Even then, some folks find the short 12 gauge with all up slugs and buck, more gun than they can handle. A recent development in shotgun ammo is reduced recoil slugs and buck ( if one can find any ammo these days). A gun that fits, and reduced recoil loads should go along way to help smaller framed folks handle the 12 ga. The development and wide acceptance of the patrol carbine in .223 has largely solved the problem of small frame LE personnel and the shotgun........they just don't use one and choose the carbine.

Regards the birds head grip guns, aside from easy transport/concealment(?) and perhaps manipulation in extremely cramped quarters like inside a vehicle, I do not see such a gun doing anything better than what can be done with a conventionally stocked firearm. A quality folding stock might be the best of both worlds.

Regards bears, the typical deer slug is quite soft and I have seen them fail to exit on broadside shots on deer weighing not much over 100 lbs. As an average weight for the big bears is 500 lbs+, slugs for dangerous bears need to be of harder alloy than the typical deer/Foster slug to insure adequate penetration. Brenneke is one manufacturer of such hard slugs, there are likely others.

January 20, 2021, 10:02 PM	#18
bamaranger Senior Member Join Date: October 9, 2009 Location: North Alabama Posts: 8,300	ladies and the 12 gauge I've had quite a bit of experience with females and the 12 ga pump shotgun firing buckshot and slug loads. Off the rack guns and full power ammo were literally punishing for a number of female trainees of small frame. Getting a stock cut (shortened) to correct LOP and a high quality recoil pad are essential to acquiring proficiency and not getting kicked so severely and repeatedly that the shooter looses confidence and is intimidated beyond repair. Even then, some folks find the short 12 gauge with all up slugs and buck, more gun than they can handle. A recent development in shotgun ammo is reduced recoil slugs and buck ( if one can find any ammo these days). A gun that fits, and reduced recoil loads should go along way to help smaller framed folks handle the 12 ga. The development and wide acceptance of the patrol carbine in .223 has largely solved the problem of small frame LE personnel and the shotgun........they just don't use one and choose the carbine. Regards the birds head grip guns, aside from easy transport/concealment(?) and perhaps manipulation in extremely cramped quarters like inside a vehicle, I do not see such a gun doing anything better than what can be done with a conventionally stocked firearm. A quality folding stock might be the best of both worlds. Regards bears, the typical deer slug is quite soft and I have seen them fail to exit on broadside shots on deer weighing not much over 100 lbs. As an average weight for the big bears is 500 lbs+, slugs for dangerous bears need to be of harder alloy than the typical deer/Foster slug to insure adequate penetration. Brenneke is one manufacturer of such hard slugs, there are likely others.