The Firing Line Forums - View Single Post

Old Fuff · November 28, 2002, 04:11 PM

Jim V.

I don’t claim to know everything (or hardly anything) about the use of 1911 Government Model pistols in the Philippine Campaign(s) - following the Spanish-American War in 1898 to our entry into World War One during February, 1917. This period is argumentally one of the least researched eras in American history. While some sources seem to disagree the following is approximately correct to the best of my knowledge.

As part of a Peace Treaty following the 1898 war the United States obtained the Philippine Islands, which had been a Spanish Colony. The new acquisition soon proved to be a tar baby. The Philippine people didn’t care to exchange one imperial government for another. They wanted full independence. To further complicate matters, a Muslim population who wanted to set up a separate Islamic state inhabited some of the islands. Open warfare soon broke out and became serious. We soon learned that Muslim warriors (called “Moro’s”) refused to stop and drop dead simply because they had absorbed a cylinder full of .38 revolver bullets. This led to an emergency shipment of old 1873 models in .45 Colt which proved to be much more satisfactory in the “stopping” department. The Ordinance Department was ordered to investigate, and did so resulting in the famous “Thompson-LaGarde Tests” of 1903-04 that determined that a .45 caliber cartridge was much better then the currently used .38 Long Colt.

Consequently the Colt Company and John Browning who had been working on a .38 were ordered to switch and develop a new .45 caliber pistol. By 1908 the Ordinance Department was faced with a quandary. The development of a .45 caliber magazine pistol was proceeding at Colt, but had not reached the point where the Army was ready to purchase anything more then test lots. While most of the military services were satisfied with .38 revolvers, those in the Philippine Islands were screaming for more .45’s, preferably something newer then the old Single Action. As a consequence between 1909 through 1911 (and perhaps a little later) the War Department purchased 19,503 Colt New Service revolvers chambered in .45 Colt with 5 ½” barrels, blue finish, and plain walnut grips made slightly smaller then usual. (These was named the “Model 1909”). Of the 19,503 total 19,153 were shipped directly to the Manila Ordnance Depot in 1000 gun shipments. Additional revolvers were purchased for the Navy and Marine Corps.

Now 19,000 + six-shooters is a lot, and should have taken care of the men in the Philippine Islands for a while. It would appear that the Model 1909 did not see wide distribution outside of the Philippines – at least before World War One. After that, whatever remained were apparently sold as military surplus.

The first recorded shipment of Model 1911 pistols I have going to the Manila Ordnance Depot is 1000 pistols on April 18, 1917. This is not to suggest that 45 pistols were not being used. I would expect that units being rotated from the United States to the Philippine Islands would (might?) have brought 1911 pistols with them. I do know that some of the officers at Columbus, NM following the Pancho Villa raid had Model 1909 revolvers (from contemporary photographs) but I have seen none in the hands of enlisted personnel. As I said in the beginning, a lot more research needs to be done before any positive conclusions are drawn.

November 28, 2002, 04:11 PM	#7
Old Fuff Senior Member Join Date: October 17, 2002 Location: Arizona Posts: 237	Jim V. I don’t claim to know everything (or hardly anything) about the use of 1911 Government Model pistols in the Philippine Campaign(s) - following the Spanish-American War in 1898 to our entry into World War One during February, 1917. This period is argumentally one of the least researched eras in American history. While some sources seem to disagree the following is approximately correct to the best of my knowledge. As part of a Peace Treaty following the 1898 war the United States obtained the Philippine Islands, which had been a Spanish Colony. The new acquisition soon proved to be a tar baby. The Philippine people didn’t care to exchange one imperial government for another. They wanted full independence. To further complicate matters, a Muslim population who wanted to set up a separate Islamic state inhabited some of the islands. Open warfare soon broke out and became serious. We soon learned that Muslim warriors (called “Moro’s”) refused to stop and drop dead simply because they had absorbed a cylinder full of .38 revolver bullets. This led to an emergency shipment of old 1873 models in .45 Colt which proved to be much more satisfactory in the “stopping” department. The Ordinance Department was ordered to investigate, and did so resulting in the famous “Thompson-LaGarde Tests” of 1903-04 that determined that a .45 caliber cartridge was much better then the currently used .38 Long Colt. Consequently the Colt Company and John Browning who had been working on a .38 were ordered to switch and develop a new .45 caliber pistol. By 1908 the Ordinance Department was faced with a quandary. The development of a .45 caliber magazine pistol was proceeding at Colt, but had not reached the point where the Army was ready to purchase anything more then test lots. While most of the military services were satisfied with .38 revolvers, those in the Philippine Islands were screaming for more .45’s, preferably something newer then the old Single Action. As a consequence between 1909 through 1911 (and perhaps a little later) the War Department purchased 19,503 Colt New Service revolvers chambered in .45 Colt with 5 ½” barrels, blue finish, and plain walnut grips made slightly smaller then usual. (These was named the “Model 1909”). Of the 19,503 total 19,153 were shipped directly to the Manila Ordnance Depot in 1000 gun shipments. Additional revolvers were purchased for the Navy and Marine Corps. Now 19,000 + six-shooters is a lot, and should have taken care of the men in the Philippine Islands for a while. It would appear that the Model 1909 did not see wide distribution outside of the Philippines – at least before World War One. After that, whatever remained were apparently sold as military surplus. The first recorded shipment of Model 1911 pistols I have going to the Manila Ordnance Depot is 1000 pistols on April 18, 1917. This is not to suggest that 45 pistols were not being used. I would expect that units being rotated from the United States to the Philippine Islands would (might?) have brought 1911 pistols with them. I do know that some of the officers at Columbus, NM following the Pancho Villa raid had Model 1909 revolvers (from contemporary photographs) but I have seen none in the hands of enlisted personnel. As I said in the beginning, a lot more research needs to be done before any positive conclusions are drawn.