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Old June 9, 2012, 08:59 AM   #31
jgcoastie
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 15, 2009
Location: Kodiak, Alaska
Posts: 2,118
Quote:
Originally Posted by HiBC
I began my post with the qualification that I did not have big bear experience.I then cited an old American Rifleman test,but I did specifically state that things have changed a bit,as bullets have evolved.

I do not think the bears have changed since 1983.
I do have big bear experience. And bears have changed a lot since 1983. Temperament and habits for one thing; their natural habitat has been more encroached upon by development. They have had more interaction with humans, especially in Alaska, since 1983.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HiBC
I do not think anything about being in a bad situation with a bear has changed since 1983.The .375,if it has changed,has only gotten better with the better bullets.
Being in a bad situation with a large brown bear hasn't changed since the days of spears and loincloths. The .375 H&H has gotten better, so has every other cartridge out there. jmr40 uses that 30 year-old study to justify certain negative opinions of a wide range of calibers... In 1983, he would have been right. In 2012, he's wrong to assume certain cartridges are not suitable for bears based on this study.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HiBC
Much of the improvement to ammunition has been in propellants(velocity),accuracy,and long range ballistics.

These are largely irrelevant to a 20 yd encounter.

Now,yes,there are better bullets,dangerous game bullets,etc .

And,yes,there are better .444 bullets.Great!!
Actually, the biggest advancements since 1983 has been to the metallurgy, bonding, and construction of bullet technology. We're burning better powder today, sure... But we're pushing a much better bullet down the bore...

Quote:
Originally Posted by HiBC
A 375 is still a 375 .Maybe they made a .338 better.A .338 Lapua is not better than a .338 Win at 20 yds.
I would agree, if you'll read my first post in this thread, I specifically omitted the .338 Lapua from my list and explained the reason.

I've said more times than I can count that faster bullets don't always kill better. I recommend the .308 over the .300 Win Mag (I don't really recommend either for brown bears though).

Quote:
Originally Posted by HiBC
Now,jgcoastie,I acknowledge I have never shot a brown or grizzly,and recommend talking with bear guides.
Exactly, on both counts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HiBC
I cannot help but recall only a few days ago I responded to your thread on a "new Generation Alaska bear gun" based on a pistol configured AR variant with no buffer tube in .458 Socom.

I made a comment questioning how you would do on shot placement holding up so much ungainly weight as a handgun,or would you just blaze from the hip?You did not answer,but I have to tell you,if I wanted bear gun advise,you are not on my call list.

I only mention this because of the way you dismissed jmr40's contribution.

Not well done.
My .458 SOCOM AR pistol idea was not one of what caliber, but rather if it were possible to configure a gas-piston system to operate with the .458 SOCOM. You point out the 'no buffer tube' like it's some space-aged Star Trek concept. It's not. Maybe you should get out more.

How well will I shoot it? I don't know... How well can you shoot a gun you don't have yet and have never fired before? Exactly... You have no idea... Just like I won't have any idea of how I'll shoot the gun in question until I finish building it. Thanks for being such a smartass about it...


Yeah, I'm upset because some guy on the internet wants to listen to a 30 year-old study over someone who has been there, done that, in the current century, and decade for that matter... Oh, wait... I couldn't care less... I've posted in countless bear threads. A lot of people on TFL and elsewhere have heeded my advice to great success. Your choice...


I dismissed jmr40's post for two main reasons..

- He doesn't seem to realize what agency produced the study. Even after I have corrected him several times, he still posts (wrongly) that Alaska Dept of Wildlife conducted the study. They did not. Read the letterhead on the first page.

- Bullet technology has progressed very rapidly over the past 30 years. Cartridges that were (in 1983) unsuitable (according to the study) for bear protection are now mainstays of guides everywhere. Take the .45/70 for example... It performed dismally in the study in question, but with modern factory ammo, it is one of the best performing cartridges out there. The study even mentions that the testers wished there were better bullets available for the .45/70... Now there are.
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