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Old February 21, 2019, 11:49 AM   #59
Senior Member
Join Date: November 4, 1999
Location: Rebel South USA
Posts: 1,991
Exactly my point, and details do matter; however, you have an officer using deadly force without knowing all the facts.
any officer responding to a fast moving crisis is not likely to "know all the facts" until hours, days or weeks later- if at all. Knowing all the facts is an unrealistic benchmark in the face of a reasonably perceived dire need to protect life. Knowing [ALL] the facts is not always the basis by which police decide whether or not to take action. In real life and in the real world, people make decision and sometimes take actions based on what they know [at the time] and make a thoughtful judgment based on priorities of the moment.

My whole point is that incidents like this happen often and to simply shrug the incident away misses an opportunity to address training for both sides.
There have been training commissions all across this nation for the past 60 years which spend an inordinate amount of time addressing these ongoing issues. Some might say that it is also the fundamental basis for the idea of department accreditation which has been going on since the late 70s.

Im not sure where you have been

In fact, this case specifically would make a great case-study as I think there were actions the armed guard could have taken as well as the officer to avoid what ultimately happened
again.. there is already a robust mechanism (nationally) to evaluate such issues.

The fact of the matter is that an armed society needs to be part of the law-enforcement decision making process.
a person with a gun is a person with a gun.. every person with a gun can potentially be good, bad or ugly( it goes without saying). How they are ultimately perceived will likely depend on numerous elements as perceived by the officer making the judgment. Its never going to be perfect because we are all human.

As an armed citizen I simply accept that if I run around with a gun in my hand, there are some inherent risks associated. There are also some meaningful ways I can mitigate those risks if so inclined. I also accept that I am the person with the greatest responsibility to keep myself safe. I wont try to point the finger at someone else in that regard.

to learn and train on how to avoid facilitating hasty decision making from law enforcement. Incidents like these will happen, the goal of training on both sides would help to mitigate them.
Hasty decisions?.. That seems to imply ill conceived or reckless decision making. I don't think you can assign that connotation based simply on whether or not the officer was ultimately correct in his/her assessment. I think it that applying a reasonable and prudent person standard is generally much more customary and fair. A reasonable and prudent person with similar training, knowledge and experience as the officer in question.

Making urgent decisions in a split second which involve life-safety will probably always have a measure of haste involved. Haste is simply a factor, not a demerit.

again, police are already doing that in a very meaningful way. and have been for 60 years. What are citizens doing?
Life is a web woven by necessity and chance...

Last edited by FireForged; February 21, 2019 at 12:02 PM.
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