Thread: Gun Safe Advise
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Old January 10, 2011, 10:24 AM   #46
a1abdj
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Join Date: November 28, 2005
Location: St. Charles, MO
Posts: 496
Quote:
Of those two photos, the one that appears to have damaged content is the Sentry safe. It looks to me like that plastic bag melted and also some charring on that folded envelope where it made contact with the side wall.
You certainly have an interesting way of looking at photos. Your observations here are similar to the observations regarding the "hole punched in the safe" that was actually scratched paint.

Disregard the photos for a minute. How many safes have you personally seen opened after a fire? I have probably seen around 100, so I have some experience when it comes to seeing what is fire damaged and what is not.

Quote:
You can see there are plastic pistol cases that touch the side of the safe where the insulation is thinnest. Here is a picture of that plastic pistol case and pistol:
At what temperature would a plastic pistol case melt? At what temperature would a plastic sandwich bag or grocery bag melt?

Those plastic bags in the Sentry will usually melt in the 220 to 240 degree range. The plastic gun case in the Sturdy will usually melt in the 420 degree range. However, paper begins to change color at +/- 300 degrees, and will ignite at just over 400 degrees.

You can claim the photo is dark because it is a shadow, and then show a plastic gun case as your evidence. However, based on the numbers I just showed you, the paper could have been charred (which is probably was), and the plastic gun case could have still been in prstine condition.


Quote:
Yes that Sentry fire safe is made of a cast (concrete) mix which does allow it to evaporate water much like the drywall so it will do okay as long as there is still water to evaporate, once the water is gone or the pressure is too high for the water to boil; the heat will rise rapidly. Also, those Sentry safe can only pass a 1/2 hour test to 1550 Degrees F which as you likely know is due to the long cool down period with concrete type insulation.
I am glad you made that observation. The safe shown in that photo is in fact only a 30 minute safe.

How long do you think that safe was in the fire for it to burn into the basement? That safe performed beyond its rating. Not only did it survive an exposure longer than its rating, but it also maintained a lower temperature.


Quote:
Well that's not exactly true. I do know from AMSEC that Drylight is a concrete mix. So knowing that, I chose an aggregate with the highest thermal resistance I could find, Perlite, (it was later revealed that AMSEC uses Vermiculite as an aggregate in their fire lined safes which isn't as good as Perlite). Even with a 8 to 1 ratio of Perlite or Vermiculite to Portland Cement ratio; the concrete mix still conducts heat at least twice as fast.
So it is exactly true, when you say it's not. You "know" what it is, but can not find any information about it, so you choose a different material to run your numbers on.

Why would you choose a material that they use in the fire lined safes? That's not the material that they are using in their BF line.

I suppose you could do a bunch of math to prove something, if you actually knew the real numbers. But since you don't, I suggest a more simple method. Let's just look at what has a UL tag and what doesn't. I'll show you an AMSEC BF safe with a UL fire tag. Go ahead and show me a safe using ceramic insulation (solely) with a UL tag.
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Last edited by a1abdj; January 10, 2011 at 11:37 AM.
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