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tprT · October 5, 2000, 09:07 AM

skorzeny,
This is going to be shorter that planned. I had a long reply all typed out, then lost it when I hit my back button. I worked all night and need to get to bed. Maybe impolite was the wrong term, which I didn't say but guess I did imply it. Condescending is probably a better way to describe the start of your post. Maybe it wasn't meant that way but it was taken that way.
In my post I refer to submission holds because of your (and Pocat's) use of the term and the references to "tapping out". If you tap out, you submit correct?
I know there are good things to learn from grappling, escapes for one. Also, if I had more time in my life and a school nearby I would surely be learning BJJ. I do believe it is the most useful of the martial arts and I am envious of anyone who does have the opportunity to learn it.
I don't believe that it is a realistic self defense method though. You can not convince me that a female (or a male for that matter) trained in BJJ has much of a chance ending a fight against a larger male by grappling (I am talking about a street confrontation here, a true assault, not just sparring on a mat.) Not only do you have a question of strength, but the addition of drugs and alcohol that lessen the effect of pain, and mental illness. The strongest person I've had to wrestle was mentally ill. It took 3 troopers and 2 ambulance attendants to fully restrain him even after he was handcuffed. Pain DID NOT phase him. And he was 60 years old! If he was actively attacking us, we would have had to seriously injure him to get him to stop.
So, I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on this. The proper mindset and physical fitness along with whatever works for you is what we'll agree to o.k? Truce?

By the way, I am familiar with the chokes and am very respectful of them if they are able to be applied in the course of a confrontation. Here's a question: Where do you think you stand legally with a choke? Say a female is attacked and is able to and is justified to choke her assailant. He loses consciousness. While he is unconscious he is no longer a danger to her so she is no longer justified in choking. Escape is not a realistic option due to location of the attack or whatever. Does she keep applying the choke knowing that this may cause brain damage or death? Or does she release not knowing what to expect when he regains consciousness seconds after she does release?

T
To Gary H: When you first posted did you ever expect this firestorm?
------------------
If not you, then who?

[This message has been edited by tprT (edited October 05, 2000).]

October 5, 2000, 09:07 AM	#15
tprT Member Join Date: September 24, 2000 Posts: 36	skorzeny, This is going to be shorter that planned. I had a long reply all typed out, then lost it when I hit my back button. I worked all night and need to get to bed. Maybe impolite was the wrong term, which I didn't say but guess I did imply it. Condescending is probably a better way to describe the start of your post. Maybe it wasn't meant that way but it was taken that way. In my post I refer to submission holds because of your (and Pocat's) use of the term and the references to "tapping out". If you tap out, you submit correct? I know there are good things to learn from grappling, escapes for one. Also, if I had more time in my life and a school nearby I would surely be learning BJJ. I do believe it is the most useful of the martial arts and I am envious of anyone who does have the opportunity to learn it. I don't believe that it is a realistic self defense method though. You can not convince me that a female (or a male for that matter) trained in BJJ has much of a chance ending a fight against a larger male by grappling (I am talking about a street confrontation here, a true assault, not just sparring on a mat.) Not only do you have a question of strength, but the addition of drugs and alcohol that lessen the effect of pain, and mental illness. The strongest person I've had to wrestle was mentally ill. It took 3 troopers and 2 ambulance attendants to fully restrain him even after he was handcuffed. Pain DID NOT phase him. And he was 60 years old! If he was actively attacking us, we would have had to seriously injure him to get him to stop. So, I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on this. The proper mindset and physical fitness along with whatever works for you is what we'll agree to o.k? Truce? By the way, I am familiar with the chokes and am very respectful of them if they are able to be applied in the course of a confrontation. Here's a question: Where do you think you stand legally with a choke? Say a female is attacked and is able to and is justified to choke her assailant. He loses consciousness. While he is unconscious he is no longer a danger to her so she is no longer justified in choking. Escape is not a realistic option due to location of the attack or whatever. Does she keep applying the choke knowing that this may cause brain damage or death? Or does she release not knowing what to expect when he regains consciousness seconds after she does release? T To Gary H: When you first posted did you ever expect this firestorm? ------------------ If not you, then who? [This message has been edited by tprT (edited October 05, 2000).]