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Old July 16, 2012, 11:05 AM   #1
Bartholomew Roberts
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Join Date: June 12, 2000
Location: Texas and Oklahoma area
Posts: 8,462
Officer Shooting - 14 hits and attacker still fighting

Policemag recently did a story concerning a 2008 shooting incident in Skokie, IL. The story had so many interesting lessons in it, I thought it was worth discussing here.
http://www.policemag.com/Channel/Pat...8-25-2008.aspx

The link in itself is well worth the read; but here is a short synopsis of the incident.

Officer is involved in a chase of a possible bank robbery suspect. Suspect comes to an abrupt halt causing officer to also stop abruptly at about 15'. Gunfight kicks off with suspect firing at the officer through the windshield and officer returning fire through his own windshield. Fight ends with both men firing across the patrol car at each other. Both men reloaded autos with 10+ capacity during the fight. The SWAT trained officer who also spent his own personal time and money on training, fired 36 of the 40 rounds he carried and got 17 hits, 5 of which were capable of causing a physiological stop. Some of the interesting points:

1. The suspect fired from 15 feet or less using point shooting, first with a S&W 5906, and then later a Bersa .380 after he ran the 5906 dry. He got zero hits on the officer.

2. In the first exchange through the windshield, both men ran out of ammo at almost exactly the same time and at close range. This break in the action gave the officer a chance to exit his vehicle as the suspect sought cover.

3. The officer stated "Early in the fight, I didn't see where my rounds were going," says Gramins. "I had a favorable backdrop but didn't have my front sight. You need to find that front sight as fast as you can.

"They always talk about getting the front sight, and it's true. I knew the rounds I shot when I was prone and perpendicular to my unit hit him because I had a good sight picture on him as he was kneeling on the other side of my squad car on the opposite side of the street," he says."

I thought this was interesting, because there is a lot of talk about whether you can train to use the front sight in a fight.

4. Suspect was carrying a BUG as well as having an SKS in the car. He had been hit 14 times, including two hits that had already "killed" him; but he was still fighting and still trying to kill the officer when the officer put three shots into his head to end the fight. We talk a lot about the "average" fight; but by definition, there are a fair amount of non-average fights.

It is possible the officer's immediate aggressive response stopped the suspect from accessing the SKS in the car and creating a situation that would have been even worse for him.

5. The officer had a 50% hit rate - way above average for police shootings; but only 5 of his 17 hits (33%) landed in a place where they could force a stop - and even then, 2 of those hits still allowed the suspect enough time that he might have killed the officer. Those numbers really reinforce what a poor stopper a handgun is and how critical shot placement is.

6. If this officer had planned his training strategy around preparing for the "average" officer shooting, he'd likely be dead.
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