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Old August 1, 2010, 02:27 PM   #16
Webleymkv
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Join Date: July 20, 2005
Location: Indiana
Posts: 10,446
I think there should be some clarification on what exactly +P and +P+ denotes. +P is a designation of the Sporting Arms and Ammunition Manufacturers' Institute (SAAMI), a group to which most reputable U.S. ammo makers belong. +P stands for plus pressure and means that a cartridge with this designation may be loaded up to 10% over its maximum standard pressure. The point of loading ammunition to higher pressure is that by doing so, higher velocities can often (though not always) be achieved. The +P designation is only recognized by SAAMI in three calibers: 9mm, .38 Special, and .45 ACP. Many manufacturers also list .38 Super Auto ammunition as +P, but it is actually loaded to standard pressure and the +P designation is added to prevent confusion with the older, lower pressure .38 ACP cartridge. I would not hesitate to fire 9mm +P or .45 ACP +P ammunition in a Glock.

+P+ is a different animal altogether and much greater care must be taken when selecting and firing +P+ ammunition. SAAMI does not officially recognize +P+ ammunition so the only thing that this designation can be counted on to denote is that the ammunition is loaded above maximum standard pressure and/or +P pressure but how far above is completely up to the manufacturer's discretion. Most U.S. ammo makers limit their +P+ loadings to Military and Law Enforcement contracts though certain distributors will sell it to civilians.

The danger in firing +P+ ammo is that with certain +P+ loadings in certain guns it is not safe. For example, one occasionally encounters Hirtenberger 124grn FMJ +P+ ammunition. This ammunition is intended for submachineguns line the HK MP5 and is not safe to fire in most handguns. Likewise, Federal has made .38 Special +P+ ammunition. While this ammo is loaded in .38 Special cases, it was actually intended to be fired in .357 Magnum revolver as Magnum ammunition was considered politically incorrect at the time. Firing such ammo in a small framed revolver or an older revolver would likely damage the gun and might even be unsafe.

In your Glock 19, I would reccomend firing +P+ ammunition only after careful research on the particular loading you are considering and then only in limited amounts. My self-defense loading of choice for my 9mm (a CZ-75) is Winchester Ranger-T 127grn +P+. I know that this is a law enforcement loading specifically intended for use in handguns. Even so, I've installed an extra-power recoil spring in my gun and only shoot very limited amounts of this ammo.

Quote:
I have heard those statements about not-buying ammo with menacing names.
Most such statements stem from the negative publicity over the infamous Winchester Black Talons. These were JHP bullets with a black coating called "lubalox" which was supposed to both enhance feed reliability and reduce barrel fouling. Also the bullet design of the Black Talon was engineered to be deeper penetrating than previous designs due to demand from law enforcement and was marketed as such. Unfortunately, Black Talons were used in a well publicized mass shooting (on an NYC subway IIRC) and because of the menacing name were villified by the media with labels such as "cop killer" and "surgeons nightmare". The media attention finally became so intense that Winchester discontinued the Black Talon and replaced with with loadings that had less menacing names like Supreme SXT and Ranger T. Most premium bullets these days have non-menacing names.

I wouldn't worry too much about legal ramifications from your choice of gun or ammunition. Both the Glock 19 and Remington Golden Saber are common, popular, and well respected in both civilian and law enforcement circles and should be easily defensible by a good lawyer. There are some alarmists here who will condemn nearly any type of gun or ammunition you can think of. I've personally seen people condemn semi-automatics, revolvers, rifles, shotguns, powerful cartridges, FMJ ammunition, handloads, and JHP ammunition as things that will get you crucified by an overly zealous prosecutor. In my opinion, so long as you use a gun and ammunition from well known and respected manufacturers in a relatively common caliber without heavy modification to either the gun or ammo, it's not anything to lose sleep over.

Last edited by Webleymkv; August 1, 2010 at 02:56 PM.
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