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Old February 24, 2018, 01:31 PM   #2
44 AMP
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Join Date: March 11, 2006
Location: Upper US
Posts: 28,846
Since he is repeating (almost verbatim) the anti-gun side's talking points, I doubt actual facts will have much effect on him.

Quote:
Most Americans wanting tighter gun control, but the powerful gun lobby blocking those laws.
Its very popular today to say "most people want..." without a shred of proof, and often without even a flawed survey as "proof".

The gun control lobby believes that gun control, up to and including a complete ban on private ownership of ALL guns, is "just common sense" (in their words)

Therefore, any one who disagrees, anyone who opposes their agenda MUST be a shill for the gun lobby. ONLY some "huge, powerful, shadowy organization" could stop their common sense approach, so when they fail to get what they want, the cannot conceive that it might be because what they want is NOT what "most people" want, it MUST be because of the money, power, and influence of the gun lobby.

They're wrong. but cannot, and will not see it.


Quote:
- He's 'baffled' that people are able to buy "assault rifles" and "submachine guns." (I'm not making this up.)
He ought to be baffled, because, apparently he does not understand US gun laws, and the proper application of terms. Understandable, since its nearly certain his only information about them comes from biased and inaccurate media reporting.

Assault rifles and submachine guns are, under US law, machine guns. These guns have been restricted under US law since 1934. In 1986, the number of legally transferable machine guns was fixed at those few thousand that were in the federal registry, NO new guns have been allowed to be added, since then. Since the supply became fixed under the law, the price of the existing legally transferrable guns has jumped hugely, and the very cheapest of them costs over between $10-20,000, and most are much more expensive.

An American citizen, with a clean record, living in a state that allows it, can buy an assault rifle, or a submachine gun, under Federal law. The required paperwork and background checks can take months, or even over a year for approval, and the gun will cost more than most cars, You can get a genuine "Tommygun", if you want, but it will cost you $40,000 or more, plus the wait for federal approval to purchase...

Most people don't know this. Most people think they are completely banned. OR they think that you can buy them in any and every gun shop in the country. Neither is true. The small number of these guns that are allowed to be purchased by private citizens are heavily restricted and very, very expensive.

What he is probably thinking of, when he says "assault rifles" and "submachine guns." are legal, ordinary semi automatics, which happen to LOOK like the military full autos, ON THE OUTSIDE, but are functionally the same as all semi autos, including .22 plinkers...

The anti-gun forces came up with a name for SEMI AUTOS that look like military arms, they named them ASSAULT WEAPONS, in a deliberate (and largely successful) attempt to confuse them with actual machineguns.
Quote:
- People wanting free access to guns channelling money to Congress, gaining more power than the majority.
Again, same thing as the first point. He is repeating ONE side of the argument's mantra. He is stating OPINION, not FACT.

Quote:
He also claims that shooting deaths exceed the toll of all America's wars in the last 50 years.
This is something where there is a factual number, BUT to know whether or not he is in error, you must know where his information comes from, and what the parameters of it, are.

50 years ago is a "moving target" and changes every year. 50 years ago from now was 1968. America has had no declared wars since then, other than the amorphous "War on Terror" which I am not certain qualifies as a declared war, in the same way WWII was a declared war. Vietnam was not a declared war, the official term is that it was a "police action", and I think US military operations in the middle east and asia under the "war on terror" are also in that category.

And in both cases, the body count was lower than WWII, due to the nature of the combat and the disparity in force between the sides.

IF your Minister of Law is only counting bodies from declared wars vs. the body count of every one killed in the US by criminals, by the police, and those who commit suicide, using guns, then he might actually have an accurate figure, within his particular and specific parameters.

In other words, to dispute his claim about the numbers, one needs to know what the number is, and where he got it. after that, its simple to find out if he's being accurate, or not.

Good Luck!

And, if you dispute any of their claims, DO have verifiable sources for your information, and name them, for everyone to see.

Also be prepared for "flak" and even death threats. The most intolerant fanatics I know are on the anti-gun side.
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