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BillCA · October 11, 2005, 12:09 AM

Alright class... it's history time.

The 9mm Parabellum or 9mm Luger cartridge, as conceived for combat duty, fired a metal cased projectile (FMJ) weighing between 115 grains and 124 grains. The Germans embraced it during WW-II not only in handguns but in "Machine Pistols", like the MP-40, as well. Today the 9mm is used by the US military, mostly carrying FMJ ammo.

The original "bad" reputation for the 9mm came from WW-II and Korea, where FMJ ammo was used. People hit with a 9mm FMJ would be hurt, but not necessarily put out of action. Plus the high velocity sometimes caused a man behind the target to get wounded after the round passed through. When compared to field observations of men hit with FMJ from a .45 ACP the .45 was much more reliable at stopping someone.

This is no big surprise as the .45 ACP was designed in light of lessons learned during the Philippine Insurrection where Moros could take multiple hits from the Colt Army .38 revolver and keep coming, but officers using the .45 Colt dispatched most opponents with a single shot.

During the early 70's when police started moving from wheelguns to pistols, many used inadequate 9mm JHP or JSP ammo. Some notorious FTS (failure to stop) incidents occurred because the ammo failed to expand or otherwise cause enough injury (i.e. trauma) to stop the aggressor. In fact, someone recently posted about someone absorbing 20 9mm hits and surviving.

Today's modern JHP ammo is a whole world better. More reliable feeding, more reliable expansion and better accuracy. When these rounds work, they work very well. If we compared FMJ ammo in calibers from .38/357 up to .45 we'd see similar results for the 9mm and .38 calibers and, I think, improving results up to the .45.

Big-Bore supporters will point out that the calibers starting with a "4" don't need to expand. While this may be an oversimplification, the larger projectiles do tend to be more effective, even if it's a case of the larger diameter having more chance to hit something important.

Personally, I wouldn't feel "undergunned" if I was CCW with a 9mm loaded with modern JHP ammo -- such as Gold Dots, Golden Sabers, HydraShoks or even Silvertip ammo. But if I were stuck with FMJ, I'd much rather be carrying my .45 auto.

October 11, 2005, 12:09 AM	#6
BillCA Senior Member Join Date: November 28, 2004 Location: Silicon Valley, Ca Posts: 7,117	History Lesson! Alright class... it's history time. The 9mm Parabellum or 9mm Luger cartridge, as conceived for combat duty, fired a metal cased projectile (FMJ) weighing between 115 grains and 124 grains. The Germans embraced it during WW-II not only in handguns but in "Machine Pistols", like the MP-40, as well. Today the 9mm is used by the US military, mostly carrying FMJ ammo. The original "bad" reputation for the 9mm came from WW-II and Korea, where FMJ ammo was used. People hit with a 9mm FMJ would be hurt, but not necessarily put out of action. Plus the high velocity sometimes caused a man behind the target to get wounded after the round passed through. When compared to field observations of men hit with FMJ from a .45 ACP the .45 was much more reliable at stopping someone. This is no big surprise as the .45 ACP was designed in light of lessons learned during the Philippine Insurrection where Moros could take multiple hits from the Colt Army .38 revolver and keep coming, but officers using the .45 Colt dispatched most opponents with a single shot. During the early 70's when police started moving from wheelguns to pistols, many used inadequate 9mm JHP or JSP ammo. Some notorious FTS (failure to stop) incidents occurred because the ammo failed to expand or otherwise cause enough injury (i.e. trauma) to stop the aggressor. In fact, someone recently posted about someone absorbing 20 9mm hits and surviving. Today's modern JHP ammo is a whole world better. More reliable feeding, more reliable expansion and better accuracy. When these rounds work, they work very well. If we compared FMJ ammo in calibers from .38/357 up to .45 we'd see similar results for the 9mm and .38 calibers and, I think, improving results up to the .45. Big-Bore supporters will point out that the calibers starting with a "4" don't need to expand. While this may be an oversimplification, the larger projectiles do tend to be more effective, even if it's a case of the larger diameter having more chance to hit something important. Personally, I wouldn't feel "undergunned" if I was CCW with a 9mm loaded with modern JHP ammo -- such as Gold Dots, Golden Sabers, HydraShoks or even Silvertip ammo. But if I were stuck with FMJ, I'd much rather be carrying my .45 auto. __________________ BillCA in CA (Unfortunately)