The Firing Line Forums - View Single Post - Shipping black powder firearms to Michigan

mykeal · June 11, 2013, 06:09 PM

No, I'm not a lawyer. I am a long time Michigan citizen. I'm a member of the Michigan Coalition of Responsible Gun Owners. They lobby long and hard, and, I might add, very successfully, for sense and reason in Michigan's gun laws. We're not perfect yet, but we're getting better. And through MCGRO, I know Michigan's laws (MCGRO publishes a book detailing Michigan's gun laws, AG interpretations - which have legal standing in MI - and the supporting information behind each one). A new edition is published every time a change occurs.

I know, for a fact, that there are no laws, regulations or AG interpretations in Michigan which prevent anyone from shipping a black powder firearm to a citizen of this state. I also know that there was a time in MI when it was necessary to get a permit and have a 'safety inspection' by the local sheriff and that some interpreted that as applying to all firearms - this was changed in 2004 and the changes are documented in the MCGRO book. But even then compliance with the law was the responsibility of the BUYER, not the seller or shipper. Even then the sulter's prohibition had no basis in law.

Traditions, Cabela's, and the others, have no right to be telling me that they CAN'T ship a black powder firearm to Michigan. It's not true. They're lying, plain and simple. I don't know why, but that's the simple truth. Perhaps they're ignorant, unaware of the 2004 change. However, Cabela's in particular has two retail outlets in this state, and many employees who live here and know our laws also. They'll sell me a black powder firearm over the counter and let me walk out into the great MI outdoors with no (that's zero, zilch, nada, nunca) registration, NICS check or any other state or federal rigamarol. So they can't plead ignorance. And Traditions has been made aware of the 2004 law change many times by many different people, so they have no excuse either.

And don't forget this other little fact: even in the places where there are restrictions on the ownership and possession of black powder firearms (I'm thinking of NY and NJ in particular) the laws/regulations place no burden or penalty on the shipper - it's all on the buyer. So Traditions, Cabela's, etc. are playing the Big Brother role, protecting you from being in violation, assuming you are ignorant and need someone to look over you. Who gave them that job? Certainly none of us - they took it upon themselves.

You don't get how they are spreading misinformation? Let me spell it out: they're implying that there's a law saying they're prohibited from shipping black powder firearms to some jurisdictions. That's not true. That's how they're spreading misinformation.

June 11, 2013, 06:09 PM	#9
mykeal Senior Member Join Date: October 8, 2006 Location: Northern Michigan Posts: 2,772	No, I'm not a lawyer. I am a long time Michigan citizen. I'm a member of the Michigan Coalition of Responsible Gun Owners. They lobby long and hard, and, I might add, very successfully, for sense and reason in Michigan's gun laws. We're not perfect yet, but we're getting better. And through MCGRO, I know Michigan's laws (MCGRO publishes a book detailing Michigan's gun laws, AG interpretations - which have legal standing in MI - and the supporting information behind each one). A new edition is published every time a change occurs. I know, for a fact, that there are no laws, regulations or AG interpretations in Michigan which prevent anyone from shipping a black powder firearm to a citizen of this state. I also know that there was a time in MI when it was necessary to get a permit and have a 'safety inspection' by the local sheriff and that some interpreted that as applying to all firearms - this was changed in 2004 and the changes are documented in the MCGRO book. But even then compliance with the law was the responsibility of the BUYER, not the seller or shipper. Even then the sulter's prohibition had no basis in law. Traditions, Cabela's, and the others, have no right to be telling me that they CAN'T ship a black powder firearm to Michigan. It's not true. They're lying, plain and simple. I don't know why, but that's the simple truth. Perhaps they're ignorant, unaware of the 2004 change. However, Cabela's in particular has two retail outlets in this state, and many employees who live here and know our laws also. They'll sell me a black powder firearm over the counter and let me walk out into the great MI outdoors with no (that's zero, zilch, nada, nunca) registration, NICS check or any other state or federal rigamarol. So they can't plead ignorance. And Traditions has been made aware of the 2004 law change many times by many different people, so they have no excuse either. And don't forget this other little fact: even in the places where there are restrictions on the ownership and possession of black powder firearms (I'm thinking of NY and NJ in particular) the laws/regulations place no burden or penalty on the shipper - it's all on the buyer. So Traditions, Cabela's, etc. are playing the Big Brother role, protecting you from being in violation, assuming you are ignorant and need someone to look over you. Who gave them that job? Certainly none of us - they took it upon themselves. You don't get how they are spreading misinformation? Let me spell it out: they're implying that there's a law saying they're prohibited from shipping black powder firearms to some jurisdictions. That's not true. That's how they're spreading misinformation.