The Firing Line Forums - View Single Post

pogson · March 19, 2018, 10:40 PM

jamaica wrote, "Now watch "pogson" beat me up for this one! "

Nope! Design of bullet is critical. Too soft a core or too fragile a jacket at high velocity means explosive disintegration of the bullet. That's desirable for varmints one wants to blast to smithereens but it's no good for deer. Several commentators have suggested heavier bullets in .243 for deer. That's mostly true. There are exceptions. Some bullets of 87 grains and up are recommended for varminting or target-shooting and not deer. For deer we want the bullet to expand to make a big hole but to retain lots of weight so that it goes all the way through to leave a blood trail and increase ventilation/bleeding.

e.g. Hornady makes some 80-87 grain bullets in .243 that are recommended both for varmints and medium game. I would not use those on deer inside of 100 yards for fear of over-expansion. They might kill a deer quickly but spray the insides with lead fragments. They might not penetrate anything thick like a shoulder.

e.g. Sierra makes bullets from 85 grains and less that are strictly for varmints or targets. They do state with good placement the 85 gr varminter is OK for small deer. Where I hunt, small deer aren't legal... They do make an 85gr deer bullet and their 100 grain bullets are just fine out to quite a long range. They will expand gracefully, penetrate and exit.

I've had a couple of bad/nearly bad experiences with this. Once I was guarding the horizon expecting deer at ranges up to 400 yards with a 7mm Rem Mag. I had 140 gr SP loaded up. To my surprise a deer headed right for me appeared out of the corner of my eye. I swung up my 10X scope and popped him right in the base of the neck. The deer spun around DRT. OOPS! It was not a huge deer far away but a small deer at 100 yards... I never found the bullet and nothing exited. There was a fist-sized entrance hole an inch to the left of the shoulder. That bullet is not a varmint bullet but was not recommended for close shots like that. It's meant for 200 yards and further. Another time I fired a .264 bullet through a deer to no effect. It kept on moving as if nothing had happened. The bullet did not expand even at close range. That was a bullet intended for magnum velocities and I had selected it for a 6.5X55. I learned from my mistakes. I now test bullets for expansion close in and at maximum range.

I find that no bullet is great at both extremes. One has to load down in velocity for close shots to have good behaviour and one has to load up in velocity for good behaviour at long range. So, I carry two kinds of rounds. Usually, I use a heavy RN bullet and load it down until it will expand nicely from 0 to 200 yards. Usually I use a medium weight SPBT bullet at near-maximum velocity for 200 yards and more. The shape of the nose helps me keep them sorted out and I can load one slow one on the top of the magazine in a bolt-action and shuck it if I need to shoot far. I zero for maximum range with the pointed bullet and use the flattest part of the trajectory, the stuff before the second zero. Works for me and mine.

March 19, 2018, 10:40 PM	#29
pogson Member Join Date: March 5, 2018 Posts: 17	Design of Bullet is Critical jamaica wrote, "*Now watch "pogson" beat me up for this one!* " Nope! Design of bullet is critical. Too soft a core or too fragile a jacket at high velocity means explosive disintegration of the bullet. That's desirable for varmints one wants to blast to smithereens but it's no good for deer. Several commentators have suggested heavier bullets in .243 for deer. That's mostly true. There are exceptions. Some bullets of 87 grains and up are recommended for varminting or target-shooting and not deer. For deer we want the bullet to expand to make a big hole but to retain lots of weight so that it goes all the way through to leave a blood trail and increase ventilation/bleeding. e.g. Hornady makes some 80-87 grain bullets in .243 that are recommended both for varmints and medium game. I would not use those on deer inside of 100 yards for fear of over-expansion. They might kill a deer quickly but spray the insides with lead fragments. They might not penetrate anything thick like a shoulder. e.g. Sierra makes bullets from 85 grains and less that are strictly for varmints or targets. They do state with good placement the 85 gr varminter is OK for small deer. Where I hunt, small deer aren't legal... They do make an 85gr deer bullet and their 100 grain bullets are just fine out to quite a long range. They will expand gracefully, penetrate and exit. I've had a couple of bad/nearly bad experiences with this. Once I was guarding the horizon expecting deer at ranges up to 400 yards with a 7mm Rem Mag. I had 140 gr SP loaded up. To my surprise a deer headed right for me appeared out of the corner of my eye. I swung up my 10X scope and popped him right in the base of the neck. The deer spun around DRT. OOPS! It was not a huge deer far away but a small deer at 100 yards... I never found the bullet and nothing exited. There was a fist-sized entrance hole an inch to the left of the shoulder. That bullet is not a varmint bullet but was not recommended for close shots like that. It's meant for 200 yards and further. Another time I fired a .264 bullet through a deer to no effect. It kept on moving as if nothing had happened. The bullet did not expand even at close range. That was a bullet intended for magnum velocities and I had selected it for a 6.5X55. I learned from my mistakes. I now test bullets for expansion close in and at maximum range. I find that no bullet is great at both extremes. One has to load down in velocity for close shots to have good behaviour and one has to load up in velocity for good behaviour at long range. So, I carry two kinds of rounds. Usually, I use a heavy RN bullet and load it down until it will expand nicely from 0 to 200 yards. Usually I use a medium weight SPBT bullet at near-maximum velocity for 200 yards and more. The shape of the nose helps me keep them sorted out and I can load one slow one on the top of the magazine in a bolt-action and shuck it if I need to shoot far. I zero for maximum range with the pointed bullet and use the flattest part of the trajectory, the stuff before the second zero. Works for me and mine.