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BillCA · October 24, 2008, 10:39 AM

Divemedic,

You bring up an interesting, and somewhat valid, point about slavery. We should keep in mind that slavery, while not acceptable by today's standards, actually was acceptable for most of our history. Egyptians, Romans, Greek, Germanic, English, Spanish, Chinese, Africans, and middle eastern cultures all relied on slavery at some point and sometimes for hundreds of years.

In fact, it was improvements in agriculture that made slavery possible. Once your people had an excess of food, you could afford to take slaves to work your lands, instead of killing off your opponents. The horse collar began to reduce the worth of slaves, now that a horse could work the land without strangling. One horse and collar was worth 10 slaves and required fewer support resources.

In America, slaves were imported by the British to help work large plots of land and cut timbers. After the revolution we kept the slaves because they were still needed (to some extent) and abrupt changes to an economic model usually brings chaos (a lesson we are learning yet again today). As improvents in industry improved farming methods and people enjoyed a more stable existence, the attitude towards slavery changed.

Consider today's high-tech world collapsing. Slavery might be the only viable method to feed the most people. Do you know how to grow your own corn? How to make corn meal? How to turn that into corn bread? Or make flour from potatos? Probably not 1 in 1,000 people knows how to properly butcher a deer, cow, pig, horse or dog for food. Those who have appreciable and useful skills would be able to find jobs. Everyone else becomes "unskilled" labor to work the fields, tend animals and become servants for those who can manage a farm or some kind of factory. In return they get food and a place to sleep out of the cold.

I'm not advocating it, but the reality is that the more primitive the society, the more likely it is to rely on slave labor or some form of indentured worker.

I don't see a "parallel" to felons losing their rights, however. A felon has a choice - don't do the crime. If he makes the choice to do the crime, he knows what he's risking in terms of society's sanctions. He loses his freedom for some period of time. He carries a felony record that limits his job choices. He can no longer vote or hold office. His 2A rights are limited. A person who values his rights, especially his voting rights, will decide the risk outweighs the rewards.

October 24, 2008, 10:39 AM	#30
BillCA Senior Member Join Date: November 28, 2004 Location: Silicon Valley, Ca Posts: 7,117	Divemedic, You bring up an interesting, and somewhat valid, point about slavery. We should keep in mind that slavery, while not acceptable by today's standards, actually was acceptable for most of our history. Egyptians, Romans, Greek, Germanic, English, Spanish, Chinese, Africans, and middle eastern cultures all relied on slavery at some point and sometimes for hundreds of years. In fact, it was improvements in agriculture that made slavery possible. Once your people had an excess of food, you could afford to take slaves to work your lands, instead of killing off your opponents. The horse collar began to reduce the worth of slaves, now that a horse could work the land without strangling. One horse and collar was worth 10 slaves and required fewer support resources. In America, slaves were imported by the British to help work large plots of land and cut timbers. After the revolution we kept the slaves because they were still needed (to some extent) and abrupt changes to an economic model usually brings chaos (a lesson we are learning yet again today). As improvents in industry improved farming methods and people enjoyed a more stable existence, the attitude towards slavery changed. Consider today's high-tech world collapsing. Slavery might be the only viable method to feed the most people. Do you know how to grow your own corn? How to make corn meal? How to turn that into corn bread? Or make flour from potatos? Probably not 1 in 1,000 people knows how to properly butcher a deer, cow, pig, horse or dog for food. Those who have appreciable and useful skills would be able to find jobs. Everyone else becomes "unskilled" labor to work the fields, tend animals and become servants for those who can manage a farm or some kind of factory. In return they get food and a place to sleep out of the cold. I'm not advocating it, but the reality is that the more primitive the society, the more likely it is to rely on slave labor or some form of indentured worker. I don't see a "parallel" to felons losing their rights, however. A felon has a choice - don't do the crime. If he makes the choice to do the crime, he knows what he's risking in terms of society's sanctions. He loses his freedom for some period of time. He carries a felony record that limits his job choices. He can no longer vote or hold office. His 2A rights are limited. A person who values his rights, especially his voting rights, will decide the risk outweighs the rewards. __________________ BillCA in CA (Unfortunately)