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Old October 23, 2018, 01:02 PM   #17
44 AMP
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Join Date: March 11, 2006
Location: Upper US
Posts: 28,833
Quote:
2 1/2" for the fired hull, right?
This got me thinking, and realizing that I actually don't know!

So. I grabbed a couple paper shells from my stash, and a tape measure (admittedly not looking for precision), and Winchester Express with a star crimp measured just over 2 1/4" unfired, so I think those particular shells are shorter ones, though not sure of their proper chamber length.
(didn't realize I had any of the shorter 12s till now )

A Winchester Long Range Express (with pat# on the case) which has a roll crimp and card wad measured just over 2.5"

A Remington "Slugger" new production (plastic) also measured just over 2.5" unfired. (picked the slug because it was handy...)

SO, I'd guess that the chamber length measurement is for the fired case, and if so, means that while a 2 3/4" shell might fit and fire in a shorter chamber, the unfolding crimp will be in the barrel where there isn't any room allowed for it, therefore raising pressure, potentially dangerously.

A question about the Ithaca, how many positions does the safety have??

Two seems common, my Grandfather's gun has 3, and is, to date, the only Ithaca I have seen that is set up that way. But, I've only seen 4 or 5 similar guns, personally.

The safety is rather cool, actually. On "fire" it moves to "safe" when the action is opened. There is a third position, all the way back, and when in that position, the gun is "off safe" and the safety does NOT go on when the action is opened. ALSO, with the action open, pulling and holding both triggers while closing the action leaves it uncocked for storage.

My Grandfather was adamant about that gun NEVER needing to be "snapped" (dry fired) for storage. He grew up in an era where snapping the hammers could result in broken firing pins and guns left cock when stored could have their springs take a "set".

One of the virtues of that gun he extolled was that it never needed to be snapped and the springs would never take a set. He had a guarantee, in writing, from Ithaca that the springs would never take a set.

(this was how they worded things in those fine days, not "for the life of the original owner", not for a set time, but "never"!!

In 1949, he was curious, having used the gun for 40 years, (without any issues) he wondered about if Ithaca's guarantee was still good. He wrote Ithaca, and got a reply back (which I have) stating that their guarantee was still good, they stood behind it, etc. It was a form letter, but there was a typewritten paragraph at the end, signed (in ink) by the company VP. It reaffirmed the guarantee on the springs, and also cautioned to avoid "Express" shells in his gun, as they were not needed, "being akin to threading a needle with a bulldozer" (the exact words used )

Restored to serviceable condition, with PROPER ammunition, I'd expect your Ithaca to be every bit as good a field gun as it was over a century ago. Somewhat restored and hung on the wall in a place of honor would also be a worthy resting place for a battered heirloom.

Ithaca made several variations of barrels between the turn of the century and WW II. An "actual" Damascus barrel could be had (made from 6 or 8 straps) or you could get a "twist" barrel (made from 2 or 4 straps), and then there were the modern "fluid steel, Smokeless powder steel", or other market names which changed from time to time with different alloys being used. My Grandfather's gun has "fluid steel" barrels so he told me, I'll have to check the next time I look at the gun, I don't recall it being marked on the gun anywhere.

My Grandfather ordered his gun to his specs in 1909, with the stock made to his measurements, choked FULL/FULL and 26" barrels, as a replacement for the twist barrel gun he sold to a neighbor after years of the neighbor trying to buy it from him. He was proud of the fluid steel barrels (cutting edge tech at the time we would say today). He did tell me (in the 1970s) that if he had known then, what he knew now, he would have spent the extra money and gotten ejectors instead of extractors...

He also told me he killed a fox with that gun at "40 rod". (work it out, its like 220yds!)

On the other hand, another thing he told me was that one of the great joys of being as old as he was, was that anyone who could call him a liar had already died!!
And that stub twist barrel gun he sold? The left barrel "unraveled" in the 1940s... (probably due to smokeless shells)
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