The Firing Line Forums - View Single Post - Gas station robbery video, What would you do?

Ton · August 13, 2017, 01:27 PM

Ah, the unanswerable question, the elemental that 98% of the population doesn't understand: Real violence. People are fragile, and a person, even being unarmed and untrained, can easily cause serious physical injury, disfigurement, or death to another person.

Like most of the topics of conversation on this board, there are no perfect answers. If you have arrived at a point when you have to consider if a bullet is an appropriate solution to a situation, somebody has long since bypassed all the good answers. These types of things shouldn't happen, yet they do. And the courts will expect a witness considering whether or not deadly force is appropriate to have considered multiple factors and elements within seconds as the adrenaline courses through their body (or, in the case of the victim, their brain bounces around in their head like ping pong ball).

Again, there are no good answers. If you found yourself the victim or witness of this situation and you were armed, no matter your choice, you would have to answer to somebody. It may be your local law enforcement, attorneys, and a jury, it may be your doctor, it may be yourself in the mirror.

In my state, this situation would have been considered a robbery closely followed by an (probably aggravated) assault.

Looking at this situation in the light of a shoot or don't shoot "scenario", I'll offer the following as my "answers"

As the victim: I would have drawn and shot around 0:32.

As a bystander: I would have drawn and given verbal commands around 0:32. Trigger squeeze would have taken place around 0:38 assuming the same progression of events.

Given the disparity of force between the robber and the victim, in conjunction with the fact that the robber initiated the attack (although the victim DID block his way out), and continued to attack long after the victim had fallen to the ground, targeting the head and face almost exclusively, and employed several leg strikes and "stomps", I believe any reasonable person would conclude that the actions were likely to cause, at minimum, serious physical injury.

Again, those are my hypothetical "answers". Agree with them or don't. They are based on MY training, experience, and legal protections. I know several people would disagree, and unfortunately in today's political climate the demographic may cause unrest and political pressure to indict, but I would defend those actions to the county attorney or a jury if need be.

IF you don't like those answers (nobody should), a small can of pepper spray could have easily changed the entire dynamic of this situation in the hands of either the victim or a bystander.

August 13, 2017, 01:27 PM	#103
Ton Member Join Date: January 7, 2014 Posts: 85	Ah, the unanswerable question, the elemental that 98% of the population doesn't understand: Real violence. People are fragile, and a person, even being unarmed and untrained, can easily cause serious physical injury, disfigurement, or death to another person. Like most of the topics of conversation on this board, there are no perfect answers. If you have arrived at a point when you have to consider if a bullet is an appropriate solution to a situation, somebody has long since bypassed all the good answers. These types of things shouldn't happen, yet they do. And the courts will expect a witness considering whether or not deadly force is appropriate to have considered multiple factors and elements within seconds as the adrenaline courses through their body (or, in the case of the victim, their brain bounces around in their head like ping pong ball). Again, there are no good answers. If you found yourself the victim or witness of this situation and you were armed, no matter your choice, you would have to answer to somebody. It may be your local law enforcement, attorneys, and a jury, it may be your doctor, it may be yourself in the mirror. In my state, this situation would have been considered a robbery closely followed by an (probably aggravated) assault. Looking at this situation in the light of a shoot or don't shoot "scenario", I'll offer the following as my "answers" As the victim: I would have drawn and shot around 0:32. As a bystander: I would have drawn and given verbal commands around 0:32. Trigger squeeze would have taken place around 0:38 assuming the same progression of events. Given the disparity of force between the robber and the victim, in conjunction with the fact that the robber initiated the attack (although the victim DID block his way out), and continued to attack long after the victim had fallen to the ground, targeting the head and face almost exclusively, and employed several leg strikes and "stomps", I believe any reasonable person would conclude that the actions were likely to cause, at minimum, serious physical injury. Again, those are my hypothetical "answers". Agree with them or don't. They are based on MY training, experience, and legal protections. I know several people would disagree, and unfortunately in today's political climate the demographic may cause unrest and political pressure to indict, but I would defend those actions to the county attorney or a jury if need be. IF you don't like those answers (nobody should), a small can of pepper spray could have easily changed the entire dynamic of this situation in the hands of either the victim or a bystander.