The Firing Line Forums - View Single Post - 40 Super vs. 400 Corbon vs. 460 Rowland vs. 45 Super

Futo Inu · June 28, 2000, 05:12 PM

Walter is the resident expert on these. I find them interesting, and here are my limited tidbits of knowledge:

1. Most to least powerful: .460R, .40Sup, .45 Sup, .400CB

2. The .400CB duplicates the 10mm auto in ballistics, more or less.

3. For reloaders, the .45sup is cool, cuz you can use .45 acp dies, just the beefed-up brass. But for the necked cartridges (.400 CB and .40sup), lubing the cases is required to keep them from sticking in the resizing die, as I understand it. Not sure about that though with carbide dies.

4. All four are supposed to be convertible from a strong .45acp pistol with various components swaps, but all should use the same .45acp mags.

5. For some reason, the .400CB, unlike the .357sig, does not feed reliably from double-stack mags, due to nose-dives. Same for .40Super as I understand it.

6. .40super is supposed to push 135 gr at 1700 fps - wow! And don't tell me the 10mm or .400 CB do this - if it does, it's probably not safe and certainly not from factory ammo. If you don't reload, at least you can buy Triton .40 super ammo, right?

7. The necked cartridges have the advantage, it's said, of more efficient powder burning, due to a tighter crimp that can be put on the cartridge.

8. A comped or ported bbl is just almost a pre-requisite for the Rowland and .40 Super.

9. The .45 super is still only a moderate pressure cartridge, and can be shot in strong .45 acp guns that have a fully supported stock or aftermarket barrel, but preferably use only a bbl specifically marked for .45 super, so that you can hold the maker responsible for your injuries if it does blow up with factory spec .45 super ammo. Same can be said for any cartridge that exists.

10. The .400 CB is offered in quite a few from-the-factory pistols now - probably 8-10 pistols makers offer theirs in .400CB, at least on paper in catalogs. Probably 2 or 3 offer pistols in .45 Super, notably the reasonably-priced Springfield V16 ported long slide, plus Robar offers a conversion package for about any 1911. I personally plan on getting the Springfield V16. I've seen it tested to work reliably with super and acp loads and good accuracy. And I figure I can ream the bbl to convert it to .460 Rowland any time I feel like, or just get an extra barrel in .460 Rowland. Of course then one might ask "why not just buy a .45 win mag which is probably already on your gun store shelf?" I guess the answer is the win mag platforms offered to date are all still larger than the 1911, no? (such as the AMT, Wildey, etc.)

11. Regarding niches, yes I too doubt all four will stick around, but there are actually 2 different missions that I see, with the 400CB and .40 Triton Sup competing for one niche, super vel from an autoloading, relatively compact pistol, and the .460 and .45Sup competing for the other niche, fast and heavy for knocking down bowling pins and what-not.

12. The .460 is in theory safer than the super, because the .460 cartridge won't go into batter in a standard acp gun, due to longer case, in the event one carelessly tries to do that, whereas the .45 super will chamber in an acp gun, so the possibility is there for a kb, esp. with an unsupported chamber mouth.

BTW, IFF the '94 full capacity ban sunsets in '04 as it's supposed to, then I predict a BIG-TIME shakeup in the popularity of various calibers. The .357 sig and the other necked cartridges will take a big hit in popularity, as the market will want full capacity 9x19, 9x21, .40s&w, or 10mm (not nearly the justification for the .357 sig or .400 corbon in that event, because you can have higher capacities - more than 10 - with smaller cases - in still a very small package. The .40 super, Rowland, and .45 super should not be greatly affected one way or the other though.

[This message has been edited by Futo Inu (edited June 29, 2000).]

June 28, 2000, 05:12 PM	#15
Futo Inu Senior Member Join Date: February 12, 1999 Location: Oklahoma City, OK, USA Posts: 3,624	Walter is the resident expert on these. I find them interesting, and here are my limited tidbits of knowledge: 1. Most to least powerful: .460R, .40Sup, .45 Sup, .400CB 2. The .400CB duplicates the 10mm auto in ballistics, more or less. 3. For reloaders, the .45sup is cool, cuz you can use .45 acp dies, just the beefed-up brass. But for the necked cartridges (.400 CB and .40sup), lubing the cases is required to keep them from sticking in the resizing die, as I understand it. Not sure about that though with carbide dies. 4. All four are supposed to be convertible from a strong .45acp pistol with various components swaps, but all should use the same .45acp mags. 5. For some reason, the .400CB, unlike the .357sig, does not feed reliably from double-stack mags, due to nose-dives. Same for .40Super as I understand it. 6. .40super is supposed to push 135 gr at 1700 fps - wow! And don't tell me the 10mm or .400 CB do this - if it does, it's probably not safe and certainly not from factory ammo. If you don't reload, at least you can buy Triton .40 super ammo, right? 7. The necked cartridges have the advantage, it's said, of more efficient powder burning, due to a tighter crimp that can be put on the cartridge. 8. A comped or ported bbl is just almost a pre-requisite for the Rowland and .40 Super. 9. The .45 super is still only a moderate pressure cartridge, and can be shot in strong .45 acp guns that have a fully supported stock or aftermarket barrel, but preferably use only a bbl specifically marked for .45 super, so that you can hold the maker responsible for your injuries if it does blow up with factory spec .45 super ammo. Same can be said for any cartridge that exists. 10. The .400 CB is offered in quite a few from-the-factory pistols now - probably 8-10 pistols makers offer theirs in .400CB, at least on paper in catalogs. Probably 2 or 3 offer pistols in .45 Super, notably the reasonably-priced Springfield V16 ported long slide, plus Robar offers a conversion package for about any 1911. I personally plan on getting the Springfield V16. I've seen it tested to work reliably with super and acp loads and good accuracy. And I figure I can ream the bbl to convert it to .460 Rowland any time I feel like, or just get an extra barrel in .460 Rowland. Of course then one might ask "why not just buy a .45 win mag which is probably already on your gun store shelf?" I guess the answer is the win mag platforms offered to date are all still larger than the 1911, no? (such as the AMT, Wildey, etc.) 11. Regarding niches, yes I too doubt all four will stick around, but there are actually 2 different missions that I see, with the 400CB and .40 Triton Sup competing for one niche, super vel from an autoloading, relatively compact pistol, and the .460 and .45Sup competing for the other niche, fast and heavy for knocking down bowling pins and what-not. 12. The .460 is in theory safer than the super, because the .460 cartridge won't go into batter in a standard acp gun, due to longer case, in the event one carelessly tries to do that, whereas the .45 super will chamber in an acp gun, so the possibility is there for a kb, esp. with an unsupported chamber mouth. BTW, IFF the '94 full capacity ban sunsets in '04 as it's supposed to, then I predict a BIG-TIME shakeup in the popularity of various calibers. The .357 sig and the other necked cartridges will take a big hit in popularity, as the market will want full capacity 9x19, 9x21, .40s&w, or 10mm (not nearly the justification for the .357 sig or .400 corbon in that event, because you can have higher capacities - more than 10 - with smaller cases - in still a very small package. The .40 super, Rowland, and .45 super should not be greatly affected one way or the other though. [This message has been edited by Futo Inu (edited June 29, 2000).]