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**Mike Irwin** · May 23, 2013, 09:03 AM

Jim,

Here's the way I understand it...

All of Du Pont's rifle powder suitable for use in .30 caliber cartridges was going for military use.

Laflin and Rand had problems developing a smokeless rifle powder that they could consistently manufcture (large batches were rejected; supposedly some started decaying quickly pretty much the moment they were manufactured. ), and didn't enter the commercial market until about 1897.

CPW's output of Peyton Powder was also earmarked for military use in 1893 with none available to the civilian market, the same with Whistler and Aspinwall's W.A. 30.

There were other companies, such as Hazzard and the American Smokeless Powder Company, that were also working on commercially viable rifle propellants, but none had reached commercial viability in 1894-95.

Here's an interesting tidbit from page 10 of a history of the Laflin & Rand powder companies that speaks directly to this:

http://thefiringline.com/forums/newr...te=1&p=5532470

"Developmental testing of the 30-40 Krag cartridge was begun in 1890 with European powders (Wetteren) and continued with powders from Peyton (California Powder Works – in which DuPont had a 43% interest since 18765,6, and became a subsidiary as of 1903), and also a DuPont smokeless powder. Cartridge development encountered many delays from powder availability to primer problems, case corrosion, and bullet jacket issues."

While smokeless powder manufacture was, as you note, beyond the novelty stage, it was still incredibly new technology -- less than 10 years at that point for a powder suitable for rifle cartridges -- and the manufacturing processes were FAR removed from anything these companies had ever dealt with before.

In essence, at the same time they were developing powders suitable for rifle use, they were also developing the manufacturing techniques and processes, and they didn't always work.

All that said...

I had never considered the problems of machining nickel steel before, and I could see how that could also cause issues and delays for Winchester.

Nickel steel was introduced in 1889 as a commercial alloy, so it was also a new technology.

May 23, 2013, 09:03 AM	#8
Mike Irwin Staff Join Date: April 13, 2000 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 41,390	Jim, Here's the way I understand it... All of Du Pont's rifle powder suitable for use in .30 caliber cartridges was going for military use. Laflin and Rand had problems developing a smokeless rifle powder that they could consistently manufcture (large batches were rejected; supposedly some started decaying quickly pretty much the moment they were manufactured. ), and didn't enter the commercial market until about 1897. CPW's output of Peyton Powder was also earmarked for military use in 1893 with none available to the civilian market, the same with Whistler and Aspinwall's W.A. 30. There were other companies, such as Hazzard and the American Smokeless Powder Company, that were also working on commercially viable rifle propellants, but none had reached commercial viability in 1894-95. Here's an interesting tidbit from page 10 of a history of the Laflin & Rand powder companies that speaks directly to this: http://thefiringline.com/forums/newr...te=1&p=5532470 "Developmental testing of the 30-40 Krag cartridge was begun in 1890 with European powders (Wetteren) and continued with powders from Peyton (California Powder Works – in which DuPont had a 43% interest since 18765,6, and became a subsidiary as of 1903), and also a DuPont smokeless powder. Cartridge development encountered many delays from powder availability to primer problems, case corrosion, and bullet jacket issues." While smokeless powder manufacture was, as you note, beyond the novelty stage, it was still incredibly new technology -- less than 10 years at that point for a powder suitable for rifle cartridges -- and the manufacturing processes were FAR removed from anything these companies had ever dealt with before. In essence, at the same time they were developing powders suitable for rifle use, they were also developing the manufacturing techniques and processes, and they didn't always work. All that said... I had never considered the problems of machining nickel steel before, and I could see how that could also cause issues and delays for Winchester. Nickel steel was introduced in 1889 as a commercial alloy, so it was also a new technology. __________________ "The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.