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Originally Posted by JimDandy
You know the law better than I do, but Frank just went over this pretty well a couple to a few months ago- are they immune to the 4473 requirements at a retail POS? (Assuming this has ever come up in some wildly rare state vs federal dual sovereignty mash-up)
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No, they're not immune to the 4473 at a retail sale. At that point, the felon doesn't possess (actually, own) the firearm, either. It's when the seller is a felon that I think the A5 will kick in and protect him. And I hadn't actually thought about the fact that the seller isn't on the 4473, but if UBCs become law, I'll bet they will be added.
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Originally Posted by JimDandy
If so, a prohibited possessor can sell a firearm as long as they don't possess it, and as this isn't a crime I don't see a lot of 5A issues? Can you claim the 5A privilege if what you did wasn't a crime?
If the prohibited possessor isn't the buyer but instead the seller I REALLY can't see how they're able to claim someone else's 5A protections, they're not even ON the 4473 form.
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The prohibited
owner can sell a firearm, but he cannot possess a firearm. No, you can't claim someone else's A5 protections, but IIRC, the UBC bills made it illegal to buy
or sell firearms w/o a BG check. You really think they'll keep the seller off of the 4473 for very long if it passes?
I don't have any numbers on this, but I suspect the number of technically-prohibited-persons-who-go-sell-their-guns is pretty low.
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Originally Posted by JimDandy
Well, Dan has no reason not to testify beyond loyalty to Stan and whatever plea deal is available on the DWI so it's up to the prosecutor's discretion on which is the bigger crime I suppose. The penalty is strictly on Stan.
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I thought I recalled that UBCs made it a crime to buy or sell a gun w/o a BG check. If so, Dan may have an A5 right that he would be wise to use.
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Originally Posted by JimDandy
Really, you think with a name, birthday, and most likely a social security number (either from the form itself or a call to whatever records department can cross reference name, place of birth and date of birth to find it), the government can't find most of us in this day and age?
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When I commented on the gov't "doing a better job," I was referring to much more than finding us.
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Yup! The same way I want you to pay more taxes for any other government program you may want to have nothing to do with but provides a valuable service- Elections, City Attorney's Offices, and the like.
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Those things, while distatesful, do provide a valuable service. . . especially City Attorney's Offices. Those are critical to the proper functioning of gov't.
UBCs, though? Neither useful nor desirable. Just a first step towards registration, IMHO.
ETA: At this point, this one has wandered so far from the OP that I think it's time to close it. I have to admit to my own culpability in allowing it to do so, and apologize accordingly. JD, I'll be happy to continue discussing this with you in another thread.