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Old August 5, 2014, 04:18 PM   #32
Pond, James Pond
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Join Date: July 12, 2011
Location: Top of the Baltic stack
Posts: 6,079
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This (and you other posts) show that you are, at least in part, a rational clear thinking individual.
Damn, you've seen through the smoke-screen!!

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Their answer to how to maintain our natural resources & environment is to preserve them, primarily by keeping people out, and banning things and actions they see as harmful.
I see what you're saying and yes, banning without cause is unhelpful: granted.
However, if people can't exercise restraint in how they manage themselves, they need to be taken by the hand. Western society's behaviour oft reminds me of a teenager who's been left home alone: no restraint at all!!!

The longer society waits to act sensibly, the more extreme and draconian the laws will have to be to try and redress a semblance of balance.

Without wishing to hijack my own thread, I will say that vast swathes of the human population have little respect/understanding for the natural environment which, if left to its own devices can manage itself perfectly well. Those who have no respect for the natural environment damn well should be kept out of it. So using resources in a sustainable fashion? Sure. But it would also be nice to have areas that are left truly wild.

In Europe, the industrialisation and population density has meant that it can be a major expedition to find some real wild landscapes. I mean hours on the road and even them "man-sign" is plentiful. That is one thing I love about Estonia: there is lots of unmolested wilderness, namely forest: no paths, no jogging trails, no picnic spots, just forest. Still occasionally find piles of garbage though .

You still have a lot of wilderness in the US, I understand. Treasure it. Once gone, you won't get it back, regardless how many "plant a tree" schemes there are.

The other problem is that people see either profit or protection. Many see them as opposing sides which they need not be. For example I find the concept of green economics very interesting. However, those making the money would need to change their ways or risk not making as much and so it is seen as an adversarial movement.
These points sum up my personal view.

Meanwhile, back to lead, I notice many folks are still seeing this as a lament for lead, but it was actually about the worthiness of tungsten and how that would affect future calibres.

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Dig the landfill up, put it (bit by bit over time) into a huge ceramic-lined vessel, leach it with HCl, and a lot of what you'd get would be mixed metal chlorides in aqueous solution.
An interesting notion, but surely it is cheaper, less energy intensive, easier and more logical to just sort metals at home, so they can all go to the suitable recycler rather than burying them over a large area, only to dig them up again...
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Last edited by Pond, James Pond; August 5, 2014 at 04:26 PM.
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