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Slamfire · June 9, 2014, 07:26 PM

I do not believe that either a Chinese military SKS or the ammunition is capable of consistent MOA or sub MOA groups. I bought several when they were $79.00 and none of mine ever shot ten groups that tight.

I looked at my targets, my Russian SKS's were capable of 6 inches at 100 yards, one Chinese, most shots were within 5 inches but there is one out at 8 inches, this all with ball ammuntion. These were ten shot groups.

I am of the opinion that three shot groups are not reliable indicators of a rifle’s accuracy. In one recent publication, (not SWAT magazine!), the gunwriter had written an article about reloading for the Marlin 336 with jacketed and cast bullet loads. He claimed sub MOA groups, I think some were .6 inches at 100 yards, but he only shot three shot groups. You can get outstanding groups with low shot counts but they are statistical aberrations. If this shooter, and the gunwriter, had shot ten shot groups sub MOA with their rifles, that would be a better indication of accuracy of rifle and round, and if they both had shot 20 round rounds sub MOA with their rifles, you would have a higher confidence that the rifles and ammunition were actually capable of producing that level of accuracy.

So, I think the guy shot that group at 100 yards, but the next two targets won't be so great, and if he had shot a 10 or 20 round group, with ball ammunition, he would have been up to the 6 MOA level.

A shooting bud of mine once asked Larry Moore about how many rounds it took to have confidence in a load. Larry replied “about 20,000!”. Larry was a competitive shooter, once won the 1000 yard Wimbleton Cup, and as a Government Employee at Aberdeen Proving Ground, he tested every service rifle for the US Army up to the M16 http://www.gunsmagazine.com/1956issues/G1256.pdf

June 9, 2014, 07:26 PM	#17
Slamfire Senior Member Join Date: May 27, 2007 Posts: 5,261	I do not believe that either a Chinese military SKS or the ammunition is capable of consistent MOA or sub MOA groups. I bought several when they were $79.00 and none of mine ever shot ten groups that tight. I looked at my targets, my Russian SKS's were capable of 6 inches at 100 yards, one Chinese, most shots were within 5 inches but there is one out at 8 inches, this all with ball ammuntion. These were ten shot groups. I am of the opinion that three shot groups are not reliable indicators of a rifle’s accuracy. In one recent publication, (not SWAT magazine!), the gunwriter had written an article about reloading for the Marlin 336 with jacketed and cast bullet loads. He claimed sub MOA groups, I think some were .6 inches at 100 yards, but he only shot three shot groups. You can get outstanding groups with low shot counts but they are statistical aberrations. If this shooter, and the gunwriter, had shot ten shot groups sub MOA with their rifles, that would be a better indication of accuracy of rifle and round, and if they both had shot 20 round rounds sub MOA with their rifles, you would have a higher confidence that the rifles and ammunition were actually capable of producing that level of accuracy. So, I think the guy shot that group at 100 yards, but the next two targets won't be so great, and if he had shot a 10 or 20 round group, with ball ammunition, he would have been up to the 6 MOA level. A shooting bud of mine once asked Larry Moore about how many rounds it took to have confidence in a load. Larry replied “about 20,000!”. Larry was a competitive shooter, once won the 1000 yard Wimbleton Cup, and as a Government Employee at Aberdeen Proving Ground, he tested every service rifle for the US Army up to the M16 http://www.gunsmagazine.com/1956issues/G1256.pdf __________________ If I'm not shooting, I'm reloading.