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Wyosmith · December 8, 2017, 10:50 AM

I have killed a fair number of deer and pronghorn antelope with a 357 mag 6" barreled M27 S&W and all my bullet have exited. No animal has taken a 2nd shot. No animal was lost. No animal has run more than about 15 yards and most fell within about 3 yards.
I have killed a larger number of deer and antelope and a few elk with 44 magnums and one antelope ran a distance of 65 or 70 yards (aprox) and ALL the other game fell within a short distance of the shot with about 1/3 of them falling instantly. ALL of them were through and through wounds except for a few I killed when I was a teenager and for those deer I was using Speer 225 grain HPs and Sierra 240 Grain H. Cavities. No game animal I have shot in my life with a 44 mag with a cast bullet, starting when I was 16 didn't have an exit.
I have killed a one buffalo with a 44 mag and that bullet didn't exit, but it was a brain shot as the animal faced me, and yet the bullet was in it's neck about 3 feet down.
I have killed 3 large mule deer with a 45 colt and all had exits. I also killed a horse with that gun and the bullet exited too.
I have killed a smaller number of game animals, deer and elk, and also some horses and cattle with a 454 Casull. 100% of them required only one shot each and every one had an exit including one bull I shot going away, and that bullet exited from it's neck on the off side after going clear through a 2100 pound bull.
In addition to these animals I have killed more varmints then I can count using the same guns and ammo over a span of time of about 47 years now.
Nearly all of these were killed with hard cast bullets, and all the cast bullets were either LBT style or Keith SWCs and all were heavy for caliber. 357s are 180 and 187 grain, 44s were 265 grain, 300 grain and 320 grain. 45 Colt bullets are 265 grain SWCs and 454 Casulls were 370 grain. The 45 colt was used with "only" 9.5 grains of Unique and still the bullet went clear through the chest of a 1000 pound horse.

Men, I am of the opinion that a hard, heavy cast bullet is the best bullet to use for EVERYTHING for the outdoorsman and the only time I recommend a jacketed bullet in any handgun is for defensive use to cut back on penetration in urban areas, and in some autos that don't feed well with cast bullets.
But in the game fields I have seen NO example of killing ANY game from a rabbit to Buffalo in which any jacketed bullet of any kind was as good, let alone batter than a good hard cast (often gas-checked) bullet of LBT or Keith style. Ask yourself if there is any time you would not want to break bone and have an exit? Archers know that if you get a broad-head out the other side of an animal you will have an excellent chance of recovering that animal. Why would a hand gun bullet be different? Having seen the damage I have done with good broad heads and also the damage I see from a well designed cast bullet on game, I can swear to you all faithfully that the bullet is better than the arrow, and the arrow is still pretty good. But a bullet that comes apart or turns off course in the animal, or one that doesn't go clear through can and sometime does cause problems. I am pretty sure the lost game I hear about all died. but not in a place that the hunter recovered them. it's a bit tragic to kill them and let them go to waist.
Handgun are far more effective then most men think, if the bullets is correct for the task. The mathematical theory of "foot pounds" = killing power is false.
We SHOULD all know this, but yet I still read "experts" quoting the lack of "foot-pounds" from handguns and stating that it proves they handgun is a poor killer.
I point out that a 22-250 and a 45-70 both have about the same number of "foot-pounds" at 100 yards.

But which is better for killing buffalo?
Should be a no-brainer.

Sure --- a 22-250 in the chest of a buffalo will kill it but you would not depend on it to break both shoulders. A 45-70 will and it will also exit after it does. The formula of "foot-pounds" is faulty as it's often used in the field of ballistics. It's very incomplete.

Se the right bullet in your handgun and if you run it through the heart and lung area you'll recover your game, and in most cases, you won't have to track them very far.

December 8, 2017, 10:50 AM	#17
Wyosmith Senior Member Join Date: December 29, 2010 Location: Shoshoni Wyoming Posts: 2,713	I have killed a fair number of deer and pronghorn antelope with a 357 mag 6" barreled M27 S&W and all my bullet have exited. No animal has taken a 2nd shot. No animal was lost. No animal has run more than about 15 yards and most fell within about 3 yards. I have killed a larger number of deer and antelope and a few elk with 44 magnums and one antelope ran a distance of 65 or 70 yards (aprox) and ALL the other game fell within a short distance of the shot with about 1/3 of them falling instantly. ALL of them were through and through wounds except for a few I killed when I was a teenager and for those deer I was using Speer 225 grain HPs and Sierra 240 Grain H. Cavities. No game animal I have shot in my life with a 44 mag with a cast bullet, starting when I was 16 didn't have an exit. I have killed a one buffalo with a 44 mag and that bullet didn't exit, but it was a brain shot as the animal faced me, and yet the bullet was in it's neck about 3 feet down. I have killed 3 large mule deer with a 45 colt and all had exits. I also killed a horse with that gun and the bullet exited too. I have killed a smaller number of game animals, deer and elk, and also some horses and cattle with a 454 Casull. 100% of them required only one shot each and every one had an exit including one bull I shot going away, and that bullet exited from it's neck on the off side after going clear through a 2100 pound bull. In addition to these animals I have killed more varmints then I can count using the same guns and ammo over a span of time of about 47 years now. Nearly all of these were killed with hard cast bullets, and all the cast bullets were either LBT style or Keith SWCs and all were heavy for caliber. 357s are 180 and 187 grain, 44s were 265 grain, 300 grain and 320 grain. 45 Colt bullets are 265 grain SWCs and 454 Casulls were 370 grain. The 45 colt was used with "only" 9.5 grains of Unique and still the bullet went clear through the chest of a 1000 pound horse. Men, I am of the opinion that a hard, heavy cast bullet is the best bullet to use for EVERYTHING for the outdoorsman and the only time I recommend a jacketed bullet in any handgun is for defensive use to cut back on penetration in urban areas, and in some autos that don't feed well with cast bullets. But in the game fields I have seen NO example of killing ANY game from a rabbit to Buffalo in which any jacketed bullet of any kind was as good, let alone batter than a good hard cast (often gas-checked) bullet of LBT or Keith style. Ask yourself if there is any time you would not want to break bone and have an exit? Archers know that if you get a broad-head out the other side of an animal you will have an excellent chance of recovering that animal. Why would a hand gun bullet be different? Having seen the damage I have done with good broad heads and also the damage I see from a well designed cast bullet on game, I can swear to you all faithfully that the bullet is better than the arrow, and the arrow is still pretty good. But a bullet that comes apart or turns off course in the animal, or one that doesn't go clear through can and sometime does cause problems. I am pretty sure the lost game I hear about all died. but not in a place that the hunter recovered them. it's a bit tragic to kill them and let them go to waist. Handgun are far more effective then most men think, if the bullets is correct for the task. The mathematical theory of "foot pounds" = killing power is false. We SHOULD all know this, but yet I still read "experts" quoting the lack of "foot-pounds" from handguns and stating that it proves they handgun is a poor killer. I point out that a 22-250 and a 45-70 both have about the same number of "foot-pounds" at 100 yards. But which is better for killing buffalo? Should be a no-brainer. Sure --- a 22-250 in the chest of a buffalo will kill it but you would not depend on it to break both shoulders. A 45-70 will and it will also exit after it does. The formula of "foot-pounds" is faulty as it's often used in the field of ballistics. It's very incomplete. Se the right bullet in your handgun and if you run it through the heart and lung area you'll recover your game, and in most cases, you won't have to track them very far.