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Hansam · January 27, 2013, 08:34 AM

Having only read the thread up to this point I'd like to chime in now.

First off I have 5 kids ranging from 1 yr old to 14yrs old. Second I have multiple firearms in both long arms (shotguns and ARs) and handguns (various models). Third while I have the majority of them secured I do have four handguns and two long guns that are not secured in a safe. These firearms are for home and personal protection and as such are loaded and left in areas around the house such as atop book cases, in the nightstand drawer, beneath my bed, behind my coat rack etc.

My kids have grown up knowing these firearms are there and loaded. They do KNOW not to touch them. Aside from the 1 yr old my kids have been to the range with me and they have shot with me. They are fully aware of the power of a firearm and know they are not toys to be played with. I am disgusted when people use the excuse that they're parents and are afraid of their kids getting to the firearms. My kids are perfect examples of that excuse being a fallacy. If you're afraid of your kids getting to the firearms then it isn't the kids that's the problem - its YOU as a parent that are the problem and YOU haven't properly instructed your kids. Just because YOU failed as a parent in that aspect don't project your own failure and feelings of inadequacy upon those of us who haven't failed our kids in that area.

That said I don't believe that having these firearms out means that they aren't secured. I have good strong steel outer doors with deadbolts and sturdy windows too. Of course glass can be broken but then I also have dogs - a little one now that seems to know when ANYONE is within 100 ft of the house and a larger dog that puts on a good show of being protective and aggressive to intruders that haven't been welcomed in but I don't know how he'd do in the event of an actual break-in. I also have motion activated lights set up so that they provide a good visible perimeter all around the house out to a few hundred feet (at least).

If my family has gone somewhere for the evening and someone still approaches the house, breaks in, bypasses the dogs and finds my guns that aren't locked in a safe... its not my fault nor am I going to feel guilty if this person uses the gun in further crimes (even killing someone). I don't believe that it is upon me to ensure all my firearms are locked up in a safe. In fact I only lock my other guns up in a safe so that IF this does happen I don't have to replace all of them not because I feel responsible if a crook steals them and uses them in other crimes.

When has it been the liability of the owner if their property is used in a crime by a criminal? Are we condemning law abiding citizens simply because their property was stolen by a criminal and then used in another crime? Is that morally correct regardless of what religion you practice? Its as stupid as the laws in some cities that makes it illegal to start your car and leave it idling without a driver to either cool or heat it before you start driving - punishable by a fine. The official reasoning for most of these laws is to protect us from having our cars stolen. These laws DO exist - they're going to punish the owner for a crime that hasn't been perpetrated yet. In Wisconsin at least 3 cities have laws like these - LaCross, Sheboygan and Milwaukee. I'm sure there are other cities too.

Instead of demonizing law abiding gun owners and putting more and more pressure on us why not demonize the right group of people - the criminals - and put the pressure on them? Let's toughen our laws on criminals - bring back the death penalty in states that don't have them (for murderers) and let's increase the penalties for people who commit crimes. As it is I believe we as a society have become too lenient on criminals. There are even those who would rationalize a burglar's actions as while being illegal still being acceptable because that burglar was poor - or that illegal aliens, while still illegal, should be allowed to be here because they were simply trying to find a better life for themselves. By the way I'm an immigrant - a naturalized citizen - and having gone through all the necessary steps to get into the country legally and become a citizen I despise illegal aliens for cheating those of us who did this properly.

January 27, 2013, 08:34 AM	#68
Hansam Senior Member Join Date: February 21, 2012 Location: Wisconsin Posts: 763	Having only read the thread up to this point I'd like to chime in now. First off I have 5 kids ranging from 1 yr old to 14yrs old. Second I have multiple firearms in both long arms (shotguns and ARs) and handguns (various models). Third while I have the majority of them secured I do have four handguns and two long guns that are not secured in a safe. These firearms are for home and personal protection and as such are loaded and left in areas around the house such as atop book cases, in the nightstand drawer, beneath my bed, behind my coat rack etc. My kids have grown up knowing these firearms are there and loaded. They do KNOW not to touch them. Aside from the 1 yr old my kids have been to the range with me and they have shot with me. They are fully aware of the power of a firearm and know they are not toys to be played with. I am disgusted when people use the excuse that they're parents and are afraid of their kids getting to the firearms. My kids are perfect examples of that excuse being a fallacy. If you're afraid of your kids getting to the firearms then it isn't the kids that's the problem - its YOU as a parent that are the problem and YOU haven't properly instructed your kids. Just because YOU failed as a parent in that aspect don't project your own failure and feelings of inadequacy upon those of us who haven't failed our kids in that area. That said I don't believe that having these firearms out means that they aren't secured. I have good strong steel outer doors with deadbolts and sturdy windows too. Of course glass can be broken but then I also have dogs - a little one now that seems to know when ANYONE is within 100 ft of the house and a larger dog that puts on a good show of being protective and aggressive to intruders that haven't been welcomed in but I don't know how he'd do in the event of an actual break-in. I also have motion activated lights set up so that they provide a good visible perimeter all around the house out to a few hundred feet (at least). If my family has gone somewhere for the evening and someone still approaches the house, breaks in, bypasses the dogs and finds my guns that aren't locked in a safe... its not my fault nor am I going to feel guilty if this person uses the gun in further crimes (even killing someone). I don't believe that it is upon me to ensure all my firearms are locked up in a safe. In fact I only lock my other guns up in a safe so that IF this does happen I don't have to replace all of them not because I feel responsible if a crook steals them and uses them in other crimes. When has it been the liability of the owner if their property is used in a crime by a criminal? Are we condemning law abiding citizens simply because their property was stolen by a criminal and then used in another crime? Is that morally correct regardless of what religion you practice? Its as stupid as the laws in some cities that makes it illegal to start your car and leave it idling without a driver to either cool or heat it before you start driving - punishable by a fine. The official reasoning for most of these laws is to protect us from having our cars stolen. These laws DO exist - they're going to punish the owner for a crime that hasn't been perpetrated yet. In Wisconsin at least 3 cities have laws like these - LaCross, Sheboygan and Milwaukee. I'm sure there are other cities too. Instead of demonizing law abiding gun owners and putting more and more pressure on us why not demonize the right group of people - the criminals - and put the pressure on them? Let's toughen our laws on criminals - bring back the death penalty in states that don't have them (for murderers) and let's increase the penalties for people who commit crimes. As it is I believe we as a society have become too lenient on criminals. There are even those who would rationalize a burglar's actions as while being illegal still being acceptable because that burglar was poor - or that illegal aliens, while still illegal, should be allowed to be here because they were simply trying to find a better life for themselves. By the way I'm an immigrant - a naturalized citizen - and having gone through all the necessary steps to get into the country legally and become a citizen I despise illegal aliens for cheating those of us who did this properly. __________________ This is who we are, what we do.