[Bill Akins]

Scorch, thanks for your mention of not removing the loading tube. Because it got me to thinking. Yes I could remove the loading tube and move the recoil spring onto the barrel like it is in the Rem 8 & 81 rifles (that I checked out thanks to your tip). But I would still need a forwardly projecting piece (coming from the opening where the loading tube went into the receiver) to attach a lower fore end grip support to anyway. So you got me to thinking just how much weight would I save by removing the tube? Plus then I wouldn't have to remove the ring off the barrel and could use the barrel as is and keep the recoil spring on the loading tube as you suggested. Plus I wouldn't have to attach a bushing onto the front of the receiver that clears and goes around the barrel for the recoil spring to butt against nor have to create that other bushing that goes more forward on the barrel for the other end of the recoil spring. Plus I wouldn't have to create an upper handguard to protect against the recoil spring being on the barrel pinching a hand.

Plus I wouldn't have to make and attach an interior tapered sleeve onto the barrel for the bronze friction ring to have a straight surface to friction against (since the barrel is tapered). Plus I could cap off the rear of the loading tube and make a snap open cap on the end of the loading tube and use the loading tube to just store extra shells, to where I could snap open the cap on the end of the tube and dump the shells into my hand for loading into the box mag without having to have a side saddle rig on the receiver or slip on shell holder on the butt stock to refresh the box mag.

Since the addition of a higher capacity ammunition carrier would increase weight a lot, I was thinking the removal of the loading tube, its spring and follower would help offset some of that new weight. But the more I think about it, the more I think it isn't worth all the above trouble and modifications just to save that small amount of weight. Also by not changing out anything other than switching to box mag feed instead of tube feed, it would allow me to just concentrate on enlarging the bottom of the receiver for mag insertion and concentrating on the bolt to mag feed lips position and how to secure the mag.

So although yes I believe I could transfer the recoil spring to the barrel as in the Rem 8 & 81 rifles, I don't really have to. The main thing is to get it box mag fed.

So your simple mention of not removing it so I can have a piece to attach a fore arm hand grip to,....gave me pause for thought that made me realize it would simplify not only attaching a handguard (and I could use the original one without having to have an upper handguard to cover a recoil spring on the barrel too), but would simplify everything to the point to where I could just concentrate on how the mag goes in and attaches and how the relationship of the bolt to the mag's feed lips are. So thanks for that Scorch. At first I thought no, Scorch missed how I had transferred the recoil spring from the loading tube to the barrel. But even if you did, (and now I don't think you did), keeping everything the same except for installing a box mag sure simplifies things. The recoil spring on the barrel instead of the loading tube would work, but now I think it really isn't necessary to the overall goal of making the gun mag fed. Sometimes I get to thinking about a design modification and what some of what I come up with may work, but some wasn't really necessary to the end goal here of box mag feed.

And I did check out and study the Rem model 8 & 81 rifle design you mentioned Scorch. I was struck with how much it mirrored my mag fed Rem 11 concept with the recoil spring around the barrel. You're right Scorch. It's almost identically the same thing, same long recoil action just in a mag fed rifle instead of a shotgun.

The next thing I'm going to do is get that old stripped Remy 11 receiver I have and pick up a Saiga mag and then start looking at how the bolt slides in the receiver to see how the bottom of the bolt could pick up and chamber a shell out of the Saiga mag and how much milling it will take for the mag to fit into the bottom of the receiver. So it's nix on removing the loading tube and use it for fore end support and extra shell storage, nix on transferring the recoil spring to the barrel, and straight on to looking at box mag feeding it.

Sure simplified things....all just from your mention of not omitting the tube that got me to thinking about a host of things that keeping it would simplify. Now the loading tube can just be a support for a lower hand guard and a storage area for more shells plus is the support for the recoil spring as before. Thanks Scorch, your simple mention of not omitting the tube really got me to thinking about a host of things which caused me to greatly simplify the re-design. Would my removing the tube and transferring the recoil spring to the barrel save weight? Perhaps a little, but not worth the trouble and mods necessary to do. So now it's straight onto dealing with the box mag and bolt and leaving everything the same with the exception of removing the loading tube's interior spring, spring retaining piece and follower and plugging the rear of the loading tube and making a snap open cap on the other end for removal of extra shells storage.


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