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ernie8 · November 21, 2019, 02:31 PM

Yes the gun writers have no idea what they are talking about . Here is 1905 again , you yourself just said that was wrong . The German military NEVER used the term J [ or I ] for a bore nor ammo . Just look at any German ammo boxes or military documents . A bore with a .312 land and a .318 groove would have no rifling [ .oo3 per side ] . German P-88 ammo had a .3188 dia bullet , just measure some . A long bearing surface of a bullet larger than groove size would not work . They knew that as they were already making 8mm rifles before the G-88 with undersized bullets. S was never a bore size , the .323 bore size is clearly called the Z bore in German documents and that it came out in 1896 1/2 . All Norma says is that they were two loadings of the 8mm , one having a .318 bullet , that is true . Most gunwriters have no idea about military rifles . Mike V [ the duck of death ] wrote about the 8mm saying " the Germans turned the world on it's ear when they invented the spritzer bullet in 1905 " . Even though the French 8mm Lebel issue ammo was a spritzer in the 1890's . Clearly he had no idea . In your article quotes above the one says 7.92mm = .318 groove . It does not , just do math . The 7.92 or 7.91 and so on was the BORE dia and it was stamped on Gew-88/05's . He says the German I and J are interchangeable . My friend with a masters degree from a German college in Imperial German laughed and said that is not the case . All of that is a perfect example of the BS floating around . Look at old US army reports and OLD reloading manuals ,they knew the groove was .321 .

November 21, 2019, 02:31 PM	#14
ernie8 Senior Member Join Date: October 9, 2018 Posts: 217	Yes the gun writers have no idea what they are talking about . Here is 1905 again , you yourself just said that was wrong . The German military NEVER used the term J [ or I ] for a bore nor ammo . Just look at any German ammo boxes or military documents . A bore with a .312 land and a .318 groove would have no rifling [ .oo3 per side ] . German P-88 ammo had a .3188 dia bullet , just measure some . A long bearing surface of a bullet larger than groove size would not work . They knew that as they were already making 8mm rifles before the G-88 with undersized bullets. S was never a bore size , the .323 bore size is clearly called the Z bore in German documents and that it came out in 1896 1/2 . All Norma says is that they were two loadings of the 8mm , one having a .318 bullet , that is true . Most gunwriters have no idea about military rifles . Mike V [ the duck of death ] wrote about the 8mm saying " the Germans turned the world on it's ear when they invented the spritzer bullet in 1905 " . Even though the French 8mm Lebel issue ammo was a spritzer in the 1890's . Clearly he had no idea . In your article quotes above the one says 7.92mm = .318 groove . It does not , just do math . The 7.92 or 7.91 and so on was the BORE dia and it was stamped on Gew-88/05's . He says the German I and J are interchangeable . My friend with a masters degree from a German college in Imperial German laughed and said that is not the case . All of that is a perfect example of the BS floating around . Look at old US army reports and OLD reloading manuals ,they knew the groove was .321 .