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Wayner · January 9, 2006, 08:23 PM

I'm tired from attending a funeral but I gotta say hello to my cap&baller shooters extraordinaires. Howdy Pards. Old Dragoon I wish we could get together to test some stuff too. Where in the world would someone get a Ransom Rest anyhows? I think I know how the test may come out as far as chambers and grooves are concerned if tested in a tight gun. I think as long as there was some back pressure or resistance enough from a ball engraving some lands the powder blast would obsturate(obstuate) the lead to fill the grooves and the gun would shoot good as you guys say your guns do. Your guns must not be too far from close enough comparing the chambers and grooves so the guns shoot good. I must have run into some guns that were too small in the chambers to let the balls obstuate consistantly so reaming them made them more accurate.I always thought that although the powder blast could probably obstuate a ball even if it was in mid air(like a bat hitting a baseball on a pedestal) if there wasn't enough back resistance by the ball by a little more than it's own weight but also by enough "land" to help give the ball resistance to over coming inertia and to the powder blast the obstuation would happen inconsistantly and not uniformly. That would mean a gun with chambers undersized by .013 would do as George mentioned up above and not obstuate well or consistantly. I think if the ball gets engraved by the lands by at least .003 on each side of the ball and the chambers are undersized by not much more than .003-.004 then the lead must obstuate enough and consistantly enough. Know what I mean? I guess the Italians figure to leave a little space for fouling "and" figure the lead will fill any gap with being obstuated enough. Best of both worlds. Right. Some guns must have equal chambers to grooves or chambers .002-.003 over barrel grooves to be ultimately consistant and fouling be damned. Wipe it out by cleaning or use a good lube or a "wayner" lube pill

. I guess maybe the guns with closer tolerances with the chambers and grooves aren't for the majority of the consumer market because that includes the casual shooter just wanting to shoot the hell out of the gun and doesn't want or need ultimate accuracy because that would entail all kinds of specialized proceedures for the most serious target shooters or competition shooters. The ones that used the Pietta "Shooters Model" to win the World target Shoot or the ones that pay big money for a Pedersoli to compete with. You know like very rigorous cleaning proceedures and loading with some sort of apparatus to measure exactly the same compression on the ball and powder each chamber and re-sifting the powder to remove any dust and measuring the charges by scales and by practicing a shooting stance for hours and hours a week and exercising the shooting muscles with weights and practicing breathing exercises and wearing a diopter on the shooting glasses and wearing special shooting gloves and by a person that is like an olympic contender that becomes one with a specialized very efficient load chain and the revolver to be a human Ransom Rest. ha ha ha The average shooter ain't got the time for that so I guess most of the guns are manufactured with the chambers a little small to account for fouling and let obstuation do the rest. When a person encounters a gun that shoots crappy and measures the chambers and the grooves and finds the chambers are a reject from the quality control dept. and are "too" small he or she can ream the chambers or get a new cylinder ect. ect. I would hope that a person would be cautious about reaming though so they didn't get carried away and ream "too" much "too" deep. I only ream so many .001's and do so only as deep in the chamber as the ball will go with an average load like 20-22gr. in a 36cal. and 25-28 in a 44cal. I do it at my own risk and advise others that I've done it for that it's "their" call. When a shooter gets good accuracy with chambers a few .001's under groove size then I guess it's best to leave it alone. If a guy wants chambers and grooves closer in tolerances then it's good to know the guns can come from the box that way. The Pietta "distressed finish" guns come that way. The Pietta "Shooters" Model does too. There is the Pedersoli Rodgers and Spencer with chambers at .450 and grooves at .451 and the Pedersoli Remington with chambers .454 and grooves at .451. There's the Uberti 1862 Pocket Police and Pocket Navy with equal chambers and grooves. The guns are out there so a person doesn't have to ream to get closer tolerances if they want them. The Pietta 1851's and 1861's Colts have about .003 under sized chambers and people say they have the accuracy. The Pietta Remingtons 1858 Standard Models have chambers about .447 and grooves about .451. They seem to have more than aceptable accuracy. Anywhooo..... I like my chambers and grooves equal. Some people may not want that or figure the difference isn't worth the trouble. I think it is but then again I'm just a Hillbilly Cowboy that never had a horse and wears his chaps to ward off briars when rabbit hunting and likes my cap&ballers and the way of life it renders me. Like a Harley owner says his bike "is" a life style. My cap&ball revolvers are a life style.

To each his own. When I strap on the leather and flip the ole 1860 Colt Army into the holster and head out into the woods and the fields and meadows with my dogs Curly and Moe I am one happy hombre and I leave the world and all it's stife behind reamed chambers or not.

January 9, 2006, 08:23 PM	#140
Wayner Senior Member Join Date: December 8, 2005 Posts: 116	friends,funerals and obstuation I'm tired from attending a funeral but I gotta say hello to my cap&baller shooters extraordinaires. Howdy Pards. Old Dragoon I wish we could get together to test some stuff too. Where in the world would someone get a Ransom Rest anyhows? I think I know how the test may come out as far as chambers and grooves are concerned if tested in a tight gun. I think as long as there was some back pressure or resistance enough from a ball engraving some lands the powder blast would obsturate(obstuate) the lead to fill the grooves and the gun would shoot good as you guys say your guns do. Your guns must not be too far from close enough comparing the chambers and grooves so the guns shoot good. I must have run into some guns that were too small in the chambers to let the balls obstuate consistantly so reaming them made them more accurate.I always thought that although the powder blast could probably obstuate a ball even if it was in mid air(like a bat hitting a baseball on a pedestal) if there wasn't enough back resistance by the ball by a little more than it's own weight but also by enough "land" to help give the ball resistance to over coming inertia and to the powder blast the obstuation would happen inconsistantly and not uniformly. That would mean a gun with chambers undersized by .013 would do as George mentioned up above and not obstuate well or consistantly. I think if the ball gets engraved by the lands by at least .003 on each side of the ball and the chambers are undersized by not much more than .003-.004 then the lead must obstuate enough and consistantly enough. Know what I mean? I guess the Italians figure to leave a little space for fouling "and" figure the lead will fill any gap with being obstuated enough. Best of both worlds. Right. Some guns must have equal chambers to grooves or chambers .002-.003 over barrel grooves to be ultimately consistant and fouling be damned. Wipe it out by cleaning or use a good lube or a "wayner" lube pill . I guess maybe the guns with closer tolerances with the chambers and grooves aren't for the majority of the consumer market because that includes the casual shooter just wanting to shoot the hell out of the gun and doesn't want or need ultimate accuracy because that would entail all kinds of specialized proceedures for the most serious target shooters or competition shooters. The ones that used the Pietta "Shooters Model" to win the World target Shoot or the ones that pay big money for a Pedersoli to compete with. You know like very rigorous cleaning proceedures and loading with some sort of apparatus to measure exactly the same compression on the ball and powder each chamber and re-sifting the powder to remove any dust and measuring the charges by scales and by practicing a shooting stance for hours and hours a week and exercising the shooting muscles with weights and practicing breathing exercises and wearing a diopter on the shooting glasses and wearing special shooting gloves and by a person that is like an olympic contender that becomes one with a specialized very efficient load chain and the revolver to be a human Ransom Rest. ha ha ha The average shooter ain't got the time for that so I guess most of the guns are manufactured with the chambers a little small to account for fouling and let obstuation do the rest. When a person encounters a gun that shoots crappy and measures the chambers and the grooves and finds the chambers are a reject from the quality control dept. and are "too" small he or she can ream the chambers or get a new cylinder ect. ect. I would hope that a person would be cautious about reaming though so they didn't get carried away and ream "too" much "too" deep. I only ream so many .001's and do so only as deep in the chamber as the ball will go with an average load like 20-22gr. in a 36cal. and 25-28 in a 44cal. I do it at my own risk and advise others that I've done it for that it's "their" call. When a shooter gets good accuracy with chambers a few .001's under groove size then I guess it's best to leave it alone. If a guy wants chambers and grooves closer in tolerances then it's good to know the guns can come from the box that way. The Pietta "distressed finish" guns come that way. The Pietta "Shooters" Model does too. There is the Pedersoli Rodgers and Spencer with chambers at .450 and grooves at .451 and the Pedersoli Remington with chambers .454 and grooves at .451. There's the Uberti 1862 Pocket Police and Pocket Navy with equal chambers and grooves. The guns are out there so a person doesn't have to ream to get closer tolerances if they want them. The Pietta 1851's and 1861's Colts have about .003 under sized chambers and people say they have the accuracy. The Pietta Remingtons 1858 Standard Models have chambers about .447 and grooves about .451. They seem to have more than aceptable accuracy. Anywhooo..... I like my chambers and grooves equal. Some people may not want that or figure the difference isn't worth the trouble. I think it is but then again I'm just a Hillbilly Cowboy that never had a horse and wears his chaps to ward off briars when rabbit hunting and likes my cap&ballers and the way of life it renders me. Like a Harley owner says his bike "is" a life style. My cap&ball revolvers are a life style. To each his own. When I strap on the leather and flip the ole 1860 Colt Army into the holster and head out into the woods and the fields and meadows with my dogs Curly and Moe I am one happy hombre and I leave the world and all it's stife behind reamed chambers or not.