The Firing Line Forums - View Single Post - 458 Win Mag VS Newer African Safari Magnums

**44 AMP** · March 27, 2014, 01:31 PM

The .458 is one of those unlucky rounds that never quite lived up to what was claimed for it. It does some things very well, just not what it was hyped to do when it was introduced.

I'm not a safari type (unless that lottery ticket really pays off...) but thanks to a good friend who has a large interest in African rifles and cartridges, I have read a lot about them, and all the famous PH's and their recommendations.

There is a "sweet spot" in the velocity range, with the big (40+) calibers that runs between 2100 and 2300 fps. 500gr (ish) bullets at that speed have proven to be the best penetrators, particularly when talking elephant brain shots.

Slower bullets simply don't penetrate as well, or as reliably, and faster bullets also don't work as reliably, they have a tendency to "glance off" the skull, rather than bust though. The .460 Weatherby never got popular in Africa, mostly because its higher velocity actually reduced its effectiveness. (the cost, availablilty, and the fact that the Weatherby rifle is one of the worst stock designs for a heavy recoiling cartridge were also significant factors).

The .458 Win had its own issues when it first went to Africa. First was the powder not behaving in the high temps, and second was the construction of the 500gr solid that Win loaded. The bullet issue got fixed, and the powder one too, but along the way it was recognized that the capacity of the .458 Win simply wasn't enough to get the hoped for ( and claimed) velocities.

This was because of Winchester's decision to use the "short" magnum case rather than the longer .375H&H length. Probably this was a calculated decision to boost sales. With a .458 that would work in any standard length (.30-06) action, they figured they would sell more rifles. There are a lot of us who would, or did buy a .458, knowing we would never be going to Africa.

SO, the poor .458 Win gets a bum rap, because it just can't quite make the claimed (and desired) speed with the 500gr bullet. The .458 Lott is simply the .458 Win case, lengthened enough to hold enough powder to make that "sweet spot" speed with a 500gr bullet.

None of this means the .48 Win doesn't work for elephants, or any of the Big 5 in Africa. It does, and has been in use for some time. It just doesn't work quite as well as some more powerful rounds. Read Capstick, and his days as a cropping officer using the .458 Winchester.

This is my .458 Winchester. Found it at a gun show some years ago, and while I have no idea why the guy who made it did it this way, I thought it was neat, and unique enough to be interesting. Its light, (relatively), and shoots very well. It has also taught me that a 400gr bullet at 2200fps is about all the recoil I can tolerate, when not shooting at an animal.

Cast slugs of 400gr weight, at about 1800fps are a different matter, and while stout, I can manage those well enough. Also have recovered bullets from over two feet deep in a tree (only very slightly distorted), so I think I have enough penetration for North American game.

I would hunt deer, or anything else with my .458, and tailor my ammo for the game. Loaded to warmish/hot .45-70 speeds, the .458 isn't straining, and will handle anything that walks on my half of the planet.

March 27, 2014, 01:31 PM	#4
44 AMP Staff Join Date: March 11, 2006 Location: Upper US Posts: 28,791	.458 Winchester Magnum The .458 is one of those unlucky rounds that never quite lived up to what was claimed for it. It does some things very well, just not what it was hyped to do when it was introduced. I'm not a safari type (unless that lottery ticket really pays off...) but thanks to a good friend who has a large interest in African rifles and cartridges, I have read a lot about them, and all the famous PH's and their recommendations. There is a "sweet spot" in the velocity range, with the big (40+) calibers that runs between 2100 and 2300 fps. 500gr (ish) bullets at that speed have proven to be the best penetrators, particularly when talking elephant brain shots. Slower bullets simply don't penetrate as well, or as reliably, and faster bullets also don't work as reliably, they have a tendency to "glance off" the skull, rather than bust though. The .460 Weatherby never got popular in Africa, mostly because its higher velocity actually reduced its effectiveness. (the cost, availablilty, and the fact that the Weatherby rifle is one of the worst stock designs for a heavy recoiling cartridge were also significant factors). The .458 Win had its own issues when it first went to Africa. First was the powder not behaving in the high temps, and second was the construction of the 500gr solid that Win loaded. The bullet issue got fixed, and the powder one too, but along the way it was recognized that the capacity of the .458 Win simply wasn't enough to get the hoped for ( and claimed) velocities. This was because of Winchester's decision to use the "short" magnum case rather than the longer .375H&H length. Probably this was a calculated decision to boost sales. With a .458 that would work in any standard length (.30-06) action, they figured they would sell more rifles. There are a lot of us who would, or did buy a .458, knowing we would never be going to Africa. SO, the poor .458 Win gets a bum rap, because it just can't quite make the claimed (and desired) speed with the 500gr bullet. The .458 Lott is simply the .458 Win case, lengthened enough to hold enough powder to make that "sweet spot" speed with a 500gr bullet. None of this means the .48 Win doesn't work for elephants, or any of the Big 5 in Africa. It does, and has been in use for some time. It just doesn't work quite as well as some more powerful rounds. Read Capstick, and his days as a cropping officer using the .458 Winchester. This is my .458 Winchester. Found it at a gun show some years ago, and while I have no idea why the guy who made it did it this way, I thought it was neat, and unique enough to be interesting. Its light, (relatively), and shoots very well. It has also taught me that a 400gr bullet at 2200fps is about all the recoil I can tolerate, when not shooting at an animal. Cast slugs of 400gr weight, at about 1800fps are a different matter, and while stout, I can manage those well enough. Also have recovered bullets from over two feet deep in a tree (only very slightly distorted), so I think I have enough penetration for North American game. I would hunt deer, or anything else with my .458, and tailor my ammo for the game. Loaded to warmish/hot .45-70 speeds, the .458 isn't straining, and will handle anything that walks on my half of the planet. __________________ All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.