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Old April 28, 2013, 09:04 PM   #22
Sevens
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Join Date: July 28, 2007
Location: Ohio
Posts: 11,756
Quote:
I don't anticipate any more success here than I have had anywhere else but here goes.
I followed your link and must say that it was an interesting and enjoyable read, and fun from a historical standpoint, but I would have trouble endorsing it also, so I suppose your anticipation is...correct?!

Your article spends an awful lot of time talking about muzzle velocities and precious little time discussing maximum chamber pressure. It was a relief when I finally got to where pressure is even mentioned.

Certainly, we can't safely or logically classify the pressure of ammunition based solely on "rated" speed or even chrono tested speed? Anyone who has even dabbled with a chrono can quickly tell you the nearly endless different variables that can alter your chrono returns... everything from ambient temperature to the amount of solid roll-crimp that's been imparted on a loaded round, to say nothing of the vast differences you'll see from different firing platforms. It's never been a secret that you could pull two handguns from the same production line only moments apart and in consecutive serial numbered order and see differing chrono results from them with the "same" ammo.

You also never even lightly touch on the fact that Speer #8 has a well-earned, nearly "hall of fame" reputation in any (certainly halfway decent) handloading circles for some nearly 'what the hell were they thinking' loads published in it.

It's also not mentioned the colossal differences in the tools, equipment and intellectual advancement of pressure testing being done today from the old, retired methods used in the past.

Factory ammo these days is NOT made up from anybody's load data. Not any normal, full production ammo factory such as Federal or Winchester. They don't build their .38 Special+P rounds with "x.xx grains of xxx powder" Instead, they brew the load up according the the extremely advanced pressure testing equipment they use -- especially since the powder they are using is rarely exactly the same.

Winchester and Federal are members of SAAMI, so they build their products to meet the industry standard, the standard that was formalized by SAAMI. So when Winchester sells a product that says .38 Special+P on it... the bullet weight may be XX, constructed of XX in the shape and form of XX and it may go XX speed from any range of firearms, but you can bet that when it's in a properly spec'd chamber (built to a SAAMI specified industry standard), that loaded round will have a maximum pressure of 18,500 PSI at it's peak. No matter what you might get from it on your chrono in any firearm you launch it with.

And when they sell a box of ammo that is marked .38 Special, it will spit out results that will not exceed 17,000 PSI when it is pressure tested.

None of this really has anything to do with what Lee Jurras was doing and what the ammo companies were advertising in popular magazines 70-80 years ago and certainly nothing whatsoever with what Speer printed in some of their epic manuals that folks still reference whenever they want to make an unsuspecting newbie say "HOLY CRAP!"

The equipment, technology and capabilities to accurately and absolutely measure pressure NOW may make everything seem "weak" compared to yesterday, but it might be easier to wrap our heads around it if we simply admit that yesterday...if it "felt right" and "looked right", it got stamped "safe" and sent out the door.
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