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Old August 29, 2001, 02:29 PM   #69
Skorzeny
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Join Date: May 29, 1999
Posts: 1,938
Danger Dave:

This time, I am FORCED to agree with you!

In any case, I do not accept the notion that "martial arts" history has to be largely oral.

Certainly there are plenty of WRITTEN records that demonstrate lineage. For example, Ueshiba Moriehei (founder of Aikido) claims to have studied under Takeda Sokaku (a great teacher of Daito-Ryu Aiki-Jujutsu). Guess what? There is a written record and certificate of Ueshiba's training with Takeda. "Traditional" martial artists were generally VERY fastidious about keeping records of who learned what from whom and when, because lineage was of extreme importance. This is true of Japanese AND Chinese systems.

On the other hand, there is NO written record of the "founder" of Hapkido ever training with Takeda, contrary to the claims by Hapkido practitioners. Of course, the techniques are very similar and there probably was some transmission, but the claim of DIRECT teaching is unfounded.

In addition, those of you who claim that these outlandish claims by Korean stylists "can't be disproven either" should remember that those who make positive claims in the first place have the burden of proving their claims.

I'm simply tired of these "well, I learned from the Japanese, but really I learned the real stuff from the Korean monks on the mountains, which was so so secret that there is no written record" type claims.

My favorite one, of course, is Hwa Rang Do. Its practitioners claim that this is THE style of personal combat practiced by the Hwa Rang (flower youth) of the Shilla Dynasty. This notion is so incredulously laughable that I won't even explain why...

BTW, the Korean antipathy to all things Japanese is well taken and well understood. The Japanese did unspeakable things to the Koreans (and other Asians they subjugated) and it is completely understandable why Koreans minimize that influence.

HOWEVER, Korea is today a prosperous, industralized and educated country. The Koreans ought to really feel more confident about themselves and acknowledge influences of other nations on them.

Skorzeny
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