[OldMarksman]

OldMarks, I'd really like your take on the 2 scenarios I listed in a prior post up on this page.

In the case of the pharmacy shooting, Hkmp5sd answered very well, I think. Yes, one can speculate about what might have happened had the guard not fired, but the assailant was threatening people with a deadly weapon and putting them in imminent danger of death at the time the shot was fired. Shooting him did not involve applying sanctions for a crime he had already committed.

Regarding the home intruder, I believe that the intent of most castle laws is to establish the fact of an unlawful entry (in some place it must be forcible) as reason to believe that the occupant is in imminent danger of death or serious bodily injury. The shooter used deadly force to prevent that from happening. Again, it wasn't a case of trying to hold the perp or punish him.

If you were in the same situation in two different states, one where shooting is legal and one where it is not, would you truly act differently? Perhaps you just wouldn't shoot in either case, and that's fine. But that isn't the question.

Good question.

I don't know of any state in which self defense is not legal. Some states have a stand your ground law, but I don't think that would encourage me to shoot rather than to try to evade, avoid, or escape, though it might help in my defense.

Some states have castle laws, some do not, and the ones that exist differ in the detail. I've read legal opinions to the effect that some apparently controversial castle laws that caused concern in the media did not really change the law in the states in question. I know I wouldn't ever presume that such a law would legalize murder--I'll fire when I have no choice and only then. Again, what the laws would do is clarify the defense.

What I hope is that I can keep my wits about me and fire only if I have to. I don't know if you've ever had someone break in or try to break in, but it's a terrifying experience. So far, I've been able to get by by exhibiting a firearm and telling the perp to get going.

I know I would not shoot someone in the back at night because I don't think I could reasonably recover my propane tank any other way. That's provided for in the law in one state at this time.

Anyone on here can say they'd only do what is legal, but that's truly B.S. when the situation turns dire in a heartbeat. They'd do what they think is right, and if they're lucky, their choice will be one that is also legal. The law isn't exactly perfect, you know... if it was, it wouldn't be different across the 50 states.

That's right, but the reason we do have laws is to codify what is "right" uniformly. There are those who would feel justified in using deadly force to prevent the taking of their pick-up truck or wallet, or to get their property back. After careful deliberation by the finest minds, it was established that that was not OK some time after the time of Henry II, and most sates have specified accordingly in statute. Thinking it right does not make it so. So it's a very good idea to know what is OK before you ever even think about picking up a gun, and to not rely on dramatizations that one has seen in TV westerns and cop shows.

You've mentioned talking to the police. I've seen the lecture you posted and everyone should listen to it all the way through. You've also mentioned Massad's advice. Here it is:

Massad Ayoob’s Five-Point Checklist
1. Tell responding officers “I’m the victim; he is the perpetrator.”
2. Tell responding officers, “I will sign a complaint.”
3. Point out pertinent evidence.
4. Point out any witnesses who saw what happened.
5. If there is any hint that you are a suspect, say “Officer, you will have my full cooperation in twenty four hours after I have met with counsel.”

Step 0 is to be the first to call the police.

Would you rather have a person of high moral conviction (whose convictions you agreed with) or someone knowledgeable in the law as your neighbor?

I have both. I guess I can't say that my preferences would be doctor, police officer, plumber, heating and air conditioning man, ....

About once a week several friends get together to solve the world's problems. One is a retired attorney, and one is a former police officer. We often discuss ongoing threads on this forum. I don't rely on what I hear but I do find it helpful.

I'm still waiting for OldMarksman to tell me exactly what he would do if someone broke into his home. If they surrendered immediately on seeing you had a gun, then what? Do you not keep your gun out while you wait for the cops? Or, do you insist that the BG leave your premises immediately and just hope that the police can find him?

The former.

The original question was whether to hold them. Should they choose to leave I will not put myself in physical or legal danger. Should they opt to stay I'll keep a gun on them--for self defense.