The Firing Line Forums - View Single Post - Man with "flaming rag" charges police, kills officer with officer's own gun

**44 AMP** · September 11, 2009, 09:42 AM

Another example of an officer putting the safety of others above his own, and sadly, paying the ultimate price to protect them.

Did you look at the map? From the time the attack began, they were at arms length distance the whole time. Very tight quarters.

Point#1: Retention holsters aren't. If you can draw it, so can they.
Now, maybe the attacker knew how to work that particular holster. Maybe he just got lucky. Maybe he got control of the gun after the officer began his draw. We don't know. But the fact is that a retention holster (of any type) just increases the odds of preventing a gun grab, it is not a positive prevention.

Point #2

Code:

... that the police chief said "safety," but the reporter's notes, and firearm knowledge, weren't quite on and the reporter added "lock." It's possible that the chief misspoke - he'd have been under enough stress.

Actually in this case, the term is spot on. Safety Lock is the correct term for the thumb safety. Check a parts diagram of a 1911, or the military manuals. Safety Lock is the correct term. It isn't the term in common use anymore, but it is still the correct term.

My guess is that the chief was referring to the GLock's lack of a safety lock (manual safety/thumbsafety) as a comparison against some other auto pistol (perhaps the ones his dept used before Glocks) which did have safeties.

You can argue that Glocks are no less safe than DA revolvers, or some DA autos, and you would be right, as far as that goes. And you can argue that having a safety on his gun might not have changed anything in this case, and you would be right, as far as that goes.

But the fact remains, that there are documented cases of officers lives being saved after they lost their gun, because the safety was on, and the attacker was not able to shoot them before they could take action.

These things might not have made any difference, that is true. But they might have. My personal opinion is that an officers gun should have a safety lock. A lever that stays on until moved off. Not a decocker, not a passive trigger tab, or grip safety alone, but a positive lever that "locks" the gun from operating. I'm not an officer, so my opinion is worth what you pay for it, but for what tis worth, there it is.

September 11, 2009, 09:42 AM	#25
44 AMP Staff Join Date: March 11, 2006 Location: Upper US Posts: 28,835	A Sad occurrence... Another example of an officer putting the safety of others above his own, and sadly, paying the ultimate price to protect them. Did you look at the map? From the time the attack began, they were at arms length distance the whole time. Very tight quarters. Point#1: Retention holsters aren't. If you can draw it, so can they. Now, maybe the attacker knew how to work that particular holster. Maybe he just got lucky. Maybe he got control of the gun after the officer began his draw. We don't know. But the fact is that a retention holster (of any type) just increases the odds of preventing a gun grab, it is not a positive prevention. Point #2 Code: ... that the police chief said "safety," but the reporter's notes, and firearm knowledge, weren't quite on and the reporter added "lock." It's possible that the chief misspoke - he'd have been under enough stress. Actually in this case, the term is spot on. Safety Lock is the correct term for the thumb safety. Check a parts diagram of a 1911, or the military manuals. Safety Lock is the correct term. It isn't the term in common use anymore, but it is still the correct term. My guess is that the chief was referring to the GLock's lack of a safety lock (manual safety/thumbsafety) as a comparison against some other auto pistol (perhaps the ones his dept used before Glocks) which did have safeties. You can argue that Glocks are no less safe than DA revolvers, or some DA autos, and you would be right, as far as that goes. And you can argue that having a safety on his gun might not have changed anything in this case, and you would be right, as far as that goes. But the fact remains, that there are documented cases of officers lives being saved after they lost their gun, because the safety was on, and the attacker was not able to shoot them before they could take action. These things might not have made any difference, that is true. But they might have. My personal opinion is that an officers gun should have a safety lock. A lever that stays on until moved off. Not a decocker, not a passive trigger tab, or grip safety alone, but a positive lever that "locks" the gun from operating. I'm not an officer, so my opinion is worth what you pay for it, but for what tis worth, there it is. __________________ All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.