The Firing Line Forums - View Single Post - Kicked off range for not having NFA paperwork...

gyvel · December 6, 2009, 09:09 AM

Perhaps I am being overly simple minded, but NFA Regs regarding Form 4s clearly state that it is SUGGESTED to carry a copy. SUGGESTED does not mean REQUIRED.

Now, assuming there are no state or local ordinances to the contrary and some LEO, going on the basis of prima facie evidence, actually arrests (NOT detains) you for possessing the weapon, and you do not have your stamped paperwork with you, which, BY LAW you are NOT required have in your immediate possession, wouldn't you have a whopper of a case for false arrest once you go to court and produce said documentation?

For that matter, since the only law/regulation governing such an incident clearly states that the document is only required to be surrendered to the Attorney General or ATF officers, would you have to produce it in court at all? At that point would it become incumbent on the prosecution to prove otherwise?

The only parallel I have for this is a former acquaintance who was stopped by a Chandler, AZ LEO one night while walking with his girlfriend.

He refused to produce identification upon demand of said LEO, was arrested, jailed overnight, and, when brought before the judge was immediately exonerated due to the fact that there is no legal requirement (in AZ, at least) to show identification when walking in a public place upon demand of an LEO.

He did receive an out-of-court settlement of $10,000.00 from the City of Chandler.

Assuming no such requirement exists in Broward County or Florida, wouldn't the arrest of a person for simply refusing to produce NFA docs be the same principle?

December 6, 2009, 09:09 AM	#150
gyvel Senior Member Join Date: August 30, 2009 Location: Northern AZ Posts: 7,172	Perhaps I am being overly simple minded, but NFA Regs regarding Form 4s clearly state that it is SUGGESTED to carry a copy. SUGGESTED does not mean REQUIRED. Now, assuming there are no state or local ordinances to the contrary and some LEO, going on the basis of prima facie evidence, actually arrests (NOT detains) you for possessing the weapon, and you do not have your stamped paperwork with you, which, BY LAW you are NOT required have in your immediate possession, wouldn't you have a whopper of a case for false arrest once you go to court and produce said documentation? For that matter, since the only law/regulation governing such an incident clearly states that the document is only required to be surrendered to the Attorney General or ATF officers, would you have to produce it in court at all? At that point would it become incumbent on the prosecution to prove otherwise? The only parallel I have for this is a former acquaintance who was stopped by a Chandler, AZ LEO one night while walking with his girlfriend. He refused to produce identification upon demand of said LEO, was arrested, jailed overnight, and, when brought before the judge was immediately exonerated due to the fact that there is no legal requirement (in AZ, at least) to show identification when walking in a public place upon demand of an LEO. He did receive an out-of-court settlement of $10,000.00 from the City of Chandler. Assuming no such requirement exists in Broward County or Florida, wouldn't the arrest of a person for simply refusing to produce NFA docs be the same principle? Last edited by gyvel; December 6, 2009 at 09:15 AM.