Thread: Gun Safe Advise
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Old January 6, 2011, 11:00 AM   #22
a1abdj
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Join Date: November 28, 2005
Location: St. Charles, MO
Posts: 496
Quote:
I didn't say anything about my background here, you must be remembering another discussion from another site.
I remember it well. You were giving the same bad advice there as you are here. Neither ceramic insulation, nor gypsum board insulation, will provide proper fire protection from fire.

You can post photos of safes using these insulations that have survived. So can I. It's called luck. If these insulations worked effectively, they would be found in UL listed safes.

Quote:
Yes we both know there isn't a gun safe that has an actual UL fire rating which should make a customer wonder what are all these ratings they show on their gun safes about "Mercury Class" etc? Pretty big numbers for temperature and exposure time but no UL sticker ... seems like they are not being very honest.
Who's being dishonest? A manufacturer has their product tested however they want it tested, and post a sticker showing their results on the door. So long as the sticker doesn't say UL on it, it's not dishonest.

Consumers do not properly educate themselves on safe construction, ratings, etc., and just assume the manufacturer has their best interests in mind. That's why I'm here.

I don't see many gun safe manufacturers posting "big numbers" on their safes. Most gun safes are being tested in the 1200 degree range for an hour. UL is testing safes at 1700 degrees for an hour.

Quote:
Heat transfer works the same in either direction whether you are trying to keep heat in or keep it out. I have heat treat furnaces with steel shells that you can put your bare hand on after cooking the contents for 8 hours at over 1000F. I'd think a furnace manufacturer would make a pretty good fire rated safe.
The heat transfer may be the same, but the end results certainly are not.

In the case of a furnace, you have a heat inside of an enclosed area, and a large air volume outside. In the case of a safe, you have a lot of heat outside, and a small volume of air inside.

A 1,200 degree fire outside of a safe is going to heat the air inside of the safe faster than a 1,200 degree furnace is going to heat up the room its in.

Quote:
Pictures and videos says it all:
They just show one situation. Liberty shows photos of a safe that "survived a California wild fire". Just luck. I can show you safes that were UL listed for 4 hours that were just about melted in the same fire.

It is true that ceramic insulations will give you some protection. So will gypsum board, sawdust, cardboard, styrofoam, and even just plain old air. The problem is that none of these insulation perform as well as cast insulations, which is why real fire safes are built the way they are.
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