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Dennis · January 14, 1999, 10:54 PM

All,
Olazul is giving us more reliable, detailed, and SUBSTANTIATED information than I have heard in my eleven years in the field.

Olazul,
Thanks for sharing this information. It could save many rescuer and/or patient lives.

To the discussion:

1. Saying that a lady I would date and liplock is as great a medical risk as liplocking any stranger with no external signs of illness requires a leap of faith I can not make. Let us agree to disagree agreeably on that point.

2. Again, the thorough explanation I give in my class offsets the impression of bias you perceive here. I fully explain the range of opinions and express my viewpoint as just one among those of more experienced medical professionals. Suggesting that I should tout strictly and only the "party line" without sharing clearly identified opinions of experienced personnel will have to be our second point of agreeable disagreement. You have concentrated my attention on the possiblity of bias. I will strive to prevent it.

3. Separating Evaluation v. Tolerance of risk is worthy of much examination! As Holmes might say, "I perceive you have considerable expertise in this area." Perhaps I'm mincing words, but to say there is little room for disagreement in the evaluation of risk requires me to blindly trust the condescending opinion of those whose government job too frequently involves duplicity and "calming the masses".

(Please don't call me paranoid. I watched the government lie for twenty years in military intelligence. Later they lied about Agent Orange, "mystery" illnesses from the Gulf War, the stealing of most of my promised benefits, etc... We can e-mail the rest if you doubt the justifications of my distrust.)

4. MY problem? I just don't trust the CDC! Can you please evaluate for us, or at least comment on, these common stories?

4a. Years ago, CDC said our blood supply was safe and free from HIV/AIDS. The great tennis star Arthur Ashe (sp?) had heart surgery, received HIV-contaminated blood, contracted AIDS, put his loved ones at risk, and died through NO fault of his own. CDC lied about the efficacy of the early AIDS tests.
-- I've been told that more effective tests have virtually eliminated this risk.
-- Many healthcare professionals still recommend the patient donate his own blood, well before surgery, to eliminate this risk entirely. How common is this suggestion? Why?

4b. CDC's heavy-handed blundering into the political maelstrom of gun control really blew their credibility with me. They lied! Sweet & simple. They did not follow scientific methods here, they followed the "party line".

4c. CDC is funded with tax dollars. I truly fear their "fundings" may affect their "findings". (You don't get ahead proving the boss or funding authority is mistaken or telling lies.)

4d. Dr. Fasci of CDC (God, I hope that isn't YOU!) has put out tapes that seemed just a bit devious to me. I do not doubt his expertise, I am uneasey about his motives and worry about a possible hidden agenda.

4e. Too many times, when we discuss communicable diseases, the conversation swerves to the low risk of HIV/AIDS and never addresses the risks of the broad spectrum of communicable diseases!
-- I have been told in EMS over and over that TB is "an aerosol disease" that is "highly contagious". Now you ref heavy sources explaining EMS training was wrong.
-- Hepatitis: One PM said, "Don't worry about AIDS. Worry about hepatitis. That's what will end up killing you." That's verbatim.

5. Again, about the 200 EMTs who die from diseases they caught on duty. Jeez, I sure was hoping someone could prove that included both on and off duty: Motor Vehicle Accidents, falls, heart attacks, etc. etc. I still find "200" hard to believe...

Greatly appreciate the time and effort you're putting in here, Olazul. I also appreciate TFL understanding that appropriate evaluation of these risks is pertinent to many TFL readers.

Spectre,
Bet you never guessed what a can of worms this could be.
Great idea getting the training. First Aid works off duty too. Could save a loved one's life. Could also be good protection in court.

Stay safe, all.
----------
Unite!

January 14, 1999, 10:54 PM	#29
Dennis Staff Emeritus Join Date: November 23, 1998 Location: a small forest in Texas Posts: 7,079	All, Olazul is giving us more reliable, detailed, and SUBSTANTIATED information than I have heard in my eleven years in the field. Olazul, Thanks for sharing this information. It could save many rescuer and/or patient lives. To the discussion: 1. Saying that a lady I would date and liplock is as great a medical risk as liplocking any stranger with no external signs of illness requires a leap of faith I can not make. Let us agree to disagree agreeably on that point. 2. Again, the thorough explanation I give in my class offsets the impression of bias you perceive here. I fully explain the range of opinions and express my viewpoint as just one among those of more experienced medical professionals. Suggesting that I should tout strictly and only the "party line" without sharing clearly identified opinions of experienced personnel will have to be our second point of agreeable disagreement. You have concentrated my attention on the possiblity of bias. I will strive to prevent it. 3. Separating Evaluation v. Tolerance of risk is worthy of much examination! As Holmes might say, "I perceive you have considerable expertise in this area." Perhaps I'm mincing words, but to say there is little room for disagreement in the evaluation of risk requires me to blindly trust the condescending opinion of those whose government job too frequently involves duplicity and "calming the masses". (Please don't call me paranoid. I watched the government lie for twenty years in military intelligence. Later they lied about Agent Orange, "mystery" illnesses from the Gulf War, the stealing of most of my promised benefits, etc... We can e-mail the rest if you doubt the justifications of my distrust.) 4. MY problem? I just don't trust the CDC! Can you please evaluate for us, or at least comment on, these common stories? 4a. Years ago, CDC said our blood supply was safe and free from HIV/AIDS. The great tennis star Arthur Ashe (sp?) had heart surgery, received HIV-contaminated blood, contracted AIDS, put his loved ones at risk, and died through NO fault of his own. CDC lied about the efficacy of the early AIDS tests. -- I've been told that more effective tests have virtually eliminated this risk. -- Many healthcare professionals still recommend the patient donate his own blood, well before surgery, to eliminate this risk entirely. How common is this suggestion? Why? 4b. CDC's heavy-handed blundering into the political maelstrom of gun control really blew their credibility with me. They lied! Sweet & simple. They did not follow scientific methods here, they followed the "party line". 4c. CDC is funded with tax dollars. I truly fear their "fundings" may affect their "findings". (You don't get ahead proving the boss or funding authority is mistaken or telling lies.) 4d. Dr. Fasci of CDC (God, I hope that isn't YOU!) has put out tapes that seemed just a bit devious to me. I do not doubt his expertise, I am uneasey about his motives and worry about a possible hidden agenda. 4e. Too many times, when we discuss communicable diseases, the conversation swerves to the low risk of HIV/AIDS and never addresses the risks of the broad spectrum of communicable diseases! -- I have been told in EMS over and over that TB is "an aerosol disease" that is "highly contagious". Now you ref heavy sources explaining EMS training was wrong. -- Hepatitis: One PM said, "Don't worry about AIDS. Worry about hepatitis. That's what will end up killing you." That's verbatim. 5. Again, about the 200 EMTs who die from diseases they caught on duty. Jeez, I sure was hoping someone could prove that included both on and off duty: Motor Vehicle Accidents, falls, heart attacks, etc. etc. I still find "200" hard to believe... Greatly appreciate the time and effort you're putting in here, Olazul. I also appreciate TFL understanding that appropriate evaluation of these risks is pertinent to many TFL readers. Spectre, Bet you never guessed what a can of worms this could be. Great idea getting the training. First Aid works off duty too. Could save a loved one's life. Could also be good protection in court. Stay safe, all. ---------- Unite!