The Firing Line Forums - View Single Post - Extra Magazine....Where do you carry and How?

leadcounsel · September 19, 2005, 11:01 AM

I am "yielding" my position with further explanation as follows:

Went to the range and ran about 200-400 rounds through the following guns from standing postition with 1 second between shots:

Gun Distance MOA # of Jams and causes
Beretta 92 15' 2" *
Beretta 92 35' 4" *
Glock 35 15' 1" none
Glock 35 35' 2" none
Springfield XD 3" 15' 1.5" one failure to feed **
Springfield XD 4" 15' 1.5" none
Springfield XD 4" 35' 2.5" none
S&W SW9 9mm 15' 2" multiple ***
Taurus 607 .357 15' (SA) 2" none
Taurus 607 .357 35' (SA) 3" none

*I've been running hundreds of rounds through my pistols without cleaning to see how well they'll function when filthy dirty. I'd estimate it's been 1000 rounds or more for the above pistols since their last cleaning. I will scrub them tonight. The Beretta's fuction was excellent with the Beretta supplied magazine, but it jammed repeatedly with the aftermarket mags.

**The Springfield XD had one failure to feed which was cleared in about 1 second and firing resumed.

***I am not a fan of S&W semi-autos and this was a friend's gun who joined me at the range. This gun as probably less than 1000 rounds through it in its lifetime. I've shot this gun in the past for a total of 200 rounds. I've experienced about 5 jams with this gun in those 200 rounds. On 9/18 this gun broke and became completely useless. The plastic frame near the front completely broke releasing the guide rod and the slide.

Drawing from my albeit limited experience of 6 years as a gun owner, collector, and shooter, I personally feel that the extra magazine is useful in SOME situations and useless in others. It is circumstantial and dependent on whether one feels that it's necessary; in some cases it may be and others it may not. While crime can and certainly does strike unexpectedly, one may gauge the "relative danger" of ones' daily life.

This range experience has illuminated many things that both support and defeat my own argument and offer lessons as follows:
1: Any gun can fail whether it be a jam or a complete failure by breaking!
2: Failures by a gun are often magazine or ammuntion related. Avoid bad ammo and mags. (In the past I've found that Wolf ammo causes many jams in guns/mags that do not have a tendency to jam)
3: With the proper ammo and mags, semi auto guns rarely jam. Even when filthy dirty from 1000 rounds of fire and months since their last cleaning, Beretta only jammed with bad magazines and functioned flawlessly and accurately with the proprietary magazine; the Glock 35 has functioned flawlessly and accurately; the Springfield XD 4" has functioned flawlessly and accurately; the Springfield XD 3" has had ONE failure to feed which was cleared in 1 second. ONE failure in about 3000 rounds between these three dirty guns is acceptable for self defense purposes IMHO. These three guns, and mainly the G35 and the XD 3" are my primary line of personal self defense in the home (G35; backed up with 12 gauge or .223) and public (XD 3").
4: In thousands of rounds the Taurus revolver has NEVER failed to fire.

Conclusion: It's well accepted that any gun can fail, jam, misfire, or break. In my opinion, and for my circumstances, it's not practical to carry more than just a few tools, and I pick the tools that are most LIKELY to be called upon in the UNLIKELY event I'll need to use them. I dress professionally or business professional regularly, and casually when not working. Business attire gives me the ability to comfortably conceal a handgun and one mag (along with keyring with 5 keys, cell phone, pocket folder knife, wallet). With casual dress I can conceal maybe one or two more items with more discomfort. I generally chose nothing more except a flashlight at night.
While a multi-tool would be handy about 1% of the time it's bulk and weight are rarely warranted unless camping. The bulk and weight of a spare magazine are also not warranted (IMO) unless traveling into a rougher area.
The reason for this belief is from the above testing. One can't prepare for every scenario. For those that carry an extra mag, what if your gun breaks? For those that carry an extra gun, what if both guns fail? Or, even worse, what if the perp grabs your spare gun in a physical struggle and now you've armed the perp?

While it makes sense in some situations, I don't and won't generally carry a spare mag or gun because of the extremely rare failure in my self-defense gun. If I felt that my semi-auto would fail, I would get a different semi-auto or magazine or use different ammo or, if that failed, I would chose a revolver because they are more reliable.

Hope this ADDS something to the discussion ...

September 19, 2005, 11:01 AM	#82
leadcounsel Junior member Join Date: September 8, 2005 Location: Tacoma, WA Posts: 2,119	Range report from 9/18; wisdom of BUG or extra magazine I am "yielding" my position with further explanation as follows: Went to the range and ran about 200-400 rounds through the following guns from standing postition with 1 second between shots: Gun Distance MOA # of Jams and causes Beretta 92 15' 2" * Beretta 92 35' 4" * Glock 35 15' 1" none Glock 35 35' 2" none Springfield XD 3" 15' 1.5" one failure to feed Springfield XD 4" 15' 1.5" none Springfield XD 4" 35' 2.5" none S&W SW9 9mm 15' 2" multiple * Taurus 607 .357 15' (SA) 2" none Taurus 607 .357 35' (SA) 3" none I've been running hundreds of rounds through my pistols without cleaning to see how well they'll function when filthy dirty. I'd estimate it's been 1000 rounds or more for the above pistols since their last cleaning. I will scrub them tonight. The Beretta's fuction was excellent with the Beretta supplied magazine, but it jammed repeatedly with the aftermarket mags. The Springfield XD had one failure to feed which was cleared in about 1 second and firing resumed. **I am not a fan of S&W semi-autos and this was a friend's gun who joined me at the range. This gun as probably less than 1000 rounds through it in its lifetime. I've shot this gun in the past for a total of 200 rounds. I've experienced about 5 jams with this gun in those 200 rounds. On 9/18 this gun broke and became completely useless. The plastic frame near the front completely broke releasing the guide rod and the slide. Drawing from my albeit limited experience of 6 years as a gun owner, collector, and shooter, I personally feel that the extra magazine is useful in SOME situations and useless in others. It is circumstantial and dependent on whether one feels that it's necessary; in some cases it may be and others it may not. While crime can and certainly does strike unexpectedly, one may gauge the "relative danger" of ones' daily life. This range experience has illuminated many things that both support and defeat my own argument and offer lessons as follows: 1: Any gun can fail whether it be a jam or a complete failure by breaking! 2: Failures by a gun are often magazine or ammuntion related. Avoid bad ammo and mags. (In the past I've found that Wolf ammo causes many jams in guns/mags that do not have a tendency to jam) 3: With the proper ammo and mags, semi auto guns rarely jam. Even when filthy dirty from 1000 rounds of fire and months since their last cleaning, Beretta only jammed with bad magazines and functioned flawlessly and accurately with the proprietary magazine; the Glock 35 has functioned flawlessly and accurately; the Springfield XD 4" has functioned flawlessly and accurately; the Springfield XD 3" has had ONE failure to feed which was cleared in 1 second. ONE failure in about 3000 rounds between these three dirty guns is acceptable for self defense purposes IMHO. These three guns, and mainly the G35 and the XD 3" are my primary line of personal self defense in the home (G35; backed up with 12 gauge or .223) and public (XD 3"). 4: In thousands of rounds the Taurus revolver has NEVER failed to fire. Conclusion: It's well accepted that any gun can fail, jam, misfire, or break. In my opinion, and for my circumstances, it's not practical to carry more than just a few tools, and I pick the tools that are most LIKELY to be called upon in the UNLIKELY event I'll need to use them. I dress professionally or business professional regularly, and casually when not working. Business attire gives me the ability to comfortably conceal a handgun and one mag (along with keyring with 5 keys, cell phone, pocket folder knife, wallet). With casual dress I can conceal maybe one or two more items with more discomfort. I generally chose nothing more except a flashlight at night. While a multi-tool would be handy about 1% of the time it's bulk and weight are rarely warranted unless camping. The bulk and weight of a spare magazine are also not warranted (IMO) unless traveling into a rougher area. The reason for this belief is from the above testing. One can't prepare for every scenario. For those that carry an extra mag, what if your gun breaks? For those that carry an extra gun, what if both guns fail? Or, even worse, what if the perp grabs your spare gun in a physical struggle and now you've armed the perp? While it makes sense in some situations, I don't and won't generally carry a spare mag or gun because of the extremely rare failure in my self-defense gun. If I felt that my semi-auto would fail, I would get a different semi-auto or magazine or use different ammo or, if that failed, I would chose a revolver because they are more reliable. Hope this ADDS something to the discussion ...