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Originally Posted by Aguila Blanca
The violation is when the SSA or the VA unilaterally determine, without benefit of any semblance of a hearing or trial, that a person is "mentally defective" and must be reported to NICS as prohibited simply because they designated someone else to receive their benefit checks
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this isn't correct, but it is closer to the truth than what the press reported.
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If I recall, the Obama directive was for those that were collecting SS benefits based on mental defect or claims of mental illness AND they required a representative payee due to their inability to manage their own affairs.
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This is the situation at actually occurred. What the press reported about Trump's (fully proper and justified) repeal was that it "allowed mentally ill people to buy guns", which, was neither truthful, nor accurate...as usual...
What actually happened was one of those all too common "perfect storm" bureaucratic catch-22s. A combination of law and bureaucratic regulations, from multiple govt. agencies. While it may not have been deliberately engineered, and might simply have been a case of unintended (and unforeseen) consequences, since the result was some people being improperly/incorrectly (and illegally) listed as prohibited persons, the anti gun administration simply let it slide along. Even after it was "discovered", they did nothing to correct the situation, since it went along with their agenda.
The LAW (GCA 68) says "mentally incompetent" people are prohibited from buying firearms (from and FFL dealer). The LAW also defines "mentally incompetent" as "adjudicated incompetent", meaning a COURT rules it, after a hearing where both sides get to present evidence.
(this is the ocean we all sail on)
Now along comes the SSA (and the VA) which also use the term "mentally incompetent" (or something similar) as in in house definition which applies ONLY to actions and rulings (about benefits) WITHIN their respective agencies.
(this is the first storm)
The Administration, in its hypercompetent wisdom orders that all "mentally defective/mentally ill people must be reported to the NCIS. This was one of those "common sense" things, (of course mentally incompetent people are prohibited, the law says so...) which did NOT take into account that the definition in law, and the definition used by various govt. agencies are substantially DIFFERENT!
(the second storm)
NCIS gets a report of mental incompetence, and has no means, nor motive (its not in their mandate) to verify that such reports are accurate and meet the legal definition. They simply HAVE to take them at face value, and at face value the (incorrect) classification puts that person in the prohibited category.
(Third storm, your boat (gun rights) gets sunk.
NO violation of gun rights happens when SSA (or for that matter the VA) lists you in the mentally disabled group. That ruling ONLY applies to your status in the SSA files. The violation of rights happened when that "in house" ruling was sent to the NCIS as if it were the legal ruling (which is it NOT).
To restate, slightly simpler...
The law says "ducks can't buy guns", and the law also says "its NOT a duck, until a judge RULES that its a duck".
Agency A says "if it walks like a duck, then for our purposes, it is a duck".
Agency B says "if it walks like a duck, AND quacks like a duck, then for our purposes, it is a duck".
Administration says "all ducks must be reported to Agency C".
Agency C says "if its reported to us as a duck, we put it in the prohibited group, per the law".
So, Agencies A & B send their list of ducks to Agency C, who does not know, and is not told that A and B list ducks are not ducks under the law, but only ducks in the eyes of Agencies A & B. Agency C performs their duty, under the law, and A&B list ducks get listed as prohibited.
New administration takes over, realizes what has been going on, and changes the rule (to comply with the law) to say "only those that meet the correct legal definition of "duck" must be reported to Agency C.
And then the press has its field day, shouting how the new administration is making it easy for the mentally ill to buy guns.
Sorry for the drift, but this issue needs to be correctly understood, not just with sound bites from either side, and since the Reciprocity bill now is linked with NCIS "improvement" I thought it a related issue.