The Firing Line Forums - View Single Post - Vaunted M4 & the 5.56mm need new Weapon & larger rounds 20% of Troops say.

tirod · February 28, 2011, 11:46 AM

The "bugs" weren't in the original design, some budget cutter dropped the chrome lined barrel instituted in the '30's design of the Garand. And the facts were very much on record, more ammo does indeed play a serious part in keeping soldiers alive.

It didn't take 40 years to fix it - it was fixed by 1970. The existing out of spec barrels gone, the repurposed powder eliminated, and the soldiers taught to keep them reasonably serviced. Every soldier would like a caliber and gun that stops them DRT, even the 8mm Mauser won't. Soldiers don't want to balance things out until it's loaded on their back, then reason and common sense come into play. You can't have uber kill calibers, and you don't really need them. What you do need in combat is the ability to do a better job of hitting a target that hides and makes it as difficult as possible, just like you would.

I trained with early M16's, some from the '60's, none gave me any trouble. Problem is, the only ones who get attention are the ones who complain, not the 20 million servicemen and women who have been using one since the production ramp up guns were fixed. They don't have problems with the M16, and the 9 million around the world haven't been given away for free. Governments had their pro's look at them, use them, and then recommend them because they work.

It's not rocket science, but when you study it enough to stop parroting rumor and myth, the facts are really right there. It's not that they are just good enough, nobody has yet made any other better gun for combat use. Those that claim one is largely ignore the fact the M16 is the basis.

Design a gun without a barrel extension, with a new non rail universal optic mounting system, using a cartridge under 2.400" loaded. Don't put any controls where the M16 had them, use a free floated barrel, and for sure don't use DI but still keep it under 7 pounds unloaded.

Nobody bothers, the design elements of the M16 are pirated foward every chance they get - because it's better. It's not all about Direct Impingement, it's the total gun design. Look around, all the new designs are using the M16 as a stepping stone, keeping everything they possibly can, and changing the things they don't understand.

February 28, 2011, 11:46 AM	#66
tirod Junior member Join Date: January 21, 2009 Posts: 1,672	The "bugs" weren't in the original design, some budget cutter dropped the chrome lined barrel instituted in the '30's design of the Garand. And the facts were very much on record, more ammo does indeed play a serious part in keeping soldiers alive. It didn't take 40 years to fix it - it was fixed by 1970. The existing out of spec barrels gone, the repurposed powder eliminated, and the soldiers taught to keep them reasonably serviced. Every soldier would like a caliber and gun that stops them DRT, even the 8mm Mauser won't. Soldiers don't want to balance things out until it's loaded on their back, then reason and common sense come into play. You can't have uber kill calibers, and you don't really need them. What you do need in combat is the ability to do a better job of hitting a target that hides and makes it as difficult as possible, just like you would. I trained with early M16's, some from the '60's, none gave me any trouble. Problem is, the only ones who get attention are the ones who complain, not the 20 million servicemen and women who have been using one since the production ramp up guns were fixed. They don't have problems with the M16, and the 9 million around the world haven't been given away for free. Governments had their pro's look at them, use them, and then recommend them because they work. It's not rocket science, but when you study it enough to stop parroting rumor and myth, the facts are really right there. It's not that they are just good enough, nobody has yet made any other better gun for combat use. Those that claim one is largely ignore the fact the M16 is the basis. Design a gun without a barrel extension, with a new non rail universal optic mounting system, using a cartridge under 2.400" loaded. Don't put any controls where the M16 had them, use a free floated barrel, and for sure don't use DI but still keep it under 7 pounds unloaded. Nobody bothers, the design elements of the M16 are pirated foward every chance they get - because it's better. It's not all about Direct Impingement, it's the total gun design. Look around, all the new designs are using the M16 as a stepping stone, keeping everything they possibly can, and changing the things they don't understand.