ok guys so i decided on the winchester 69a for the simple reason that i have a marlin model 60 already and i prefer it to the old mossberg training rifle. it's very accurate and i really like it. i still find myself reaching for the old marlin when heading out rabbit hunting though. i'm pretty happy that i grabbed the winchest for the $169. it's in very good condition and i've seen it for far more than that elsewhere. thanks for the input