View Single Post
Old November 22, 2013, 05:39 PM   #46
Senior Member
Join Date: August 7, 2012
Location: Northern California
Posts: 447
Not really
Ummm ... OK, glad to know that. Perhaps you should not state all that stuff about bursting mags, over-n-over, if that's not your concern. People have a bad habit of thinking you mean what you say (joke). Glad to have that cleared up.

As a former LEO my experience is different than yours.
That's interesting, but being that something like 95% of LEO (Fed, State, County & Local combined) never fire their sidearm in the course of duty, I'm not certain what that is actually supposed to mean. I make no "claims of awesomeness", but I do know that I train far more than most LEO, and I have been at this for decades.

If you have specific instances in mind, please detail them. Perhaps we can learn from your experience. (And I do mean specific. There is no reason why matters which are public record should not be discussed. Department and case number should be minimally mentioned)

Obviously you haven't seen this video:
Cute. Interesting technology. But that's not how the human mind works. Are you a cyborg?

That's all fine and good but I prefer to use a robust technique that increases my probability of success in completing a task quickly in a variety of stressful and possibly unfavorable conditions.
That's wonderful jargon but how is a technique based upon lowest-likelihood occurrences increasing the probability of success? That's like saying "you should train for the thing which never happens, because it'll probably be the thing that happens" That's contradictory nonsense.

And (as has occurred several times now), you're simply making statements with providing any intervening logic. You've provided no reasoning as to WHY the technique you suggest is "robust", you simply keep stating it or words to the same effect.

Diagnosing stoppages is not a robust technique. Diagnosing stoppages increases the time it takes to cycle through your OODA Loop. Diagnosing stoppages diverts your attention from the danger.
I think it's been stated a couple of times that nobody is suggesting "diagnosing" ... certainly not in the old-school Gunsite fashion. Recognizing slide-lock is a trivial, basic skill. I don't know why it should confuse you or elude you, especially given your stated background.

Former Navy SEAL Jeff Gonzales, Trident Concepts -
Care to document where he advocates tap/rack on slide-lock? Is that your one source? How does he (or you) account for doing something so differently than everyone else, including the current SEAL training standards?

It doesn't look something they teach in their class. Notice the number of side-lock relaods absent even a hint of TAP/RACK:
I think you said something about skills that are common between your handgun and rifle, so ....

And golly jee ... here's Jeff himself just pulling that empty mag out and replacing it with nary a TAP/RACK in sight.

Pincus has one or two former Seals as CFS certified instructors ... they don't teach it that way, FWIW. Paul Howe is former Delta ... same story. Like I said earlier ... the list is pretty long.

So what do you do when you're in the open and your gun doesn't fire when you press the trigger? Do you stand there while you attempt to perform a Combat Reload (with the expectation that the problem is just an empty magazine) or do you quickly move off the line of attack?
Why does this question come up in this context? I don't think we're discussing movement or tactics, so it seems like an attempt to muddy the waters more than anything else. Regardless of how one is reloading, they shouldn't be standing still unless they are behind hard cover.

When reality doesn't meet your expectation (you have a stoppage other than an empty magazine) your OODA Loop resets and your attention is dangerously diverted to the gun.
Except we've established that an empty gun is far more likely than a malfunction. You've said as much yourself. If you can't recognize slide-lock, and instead perform a technique based upon your expectation (that it's a malfunction) then the reality that it is far more likely simply an empty gun runs counter to your expectation.

Whatever that does your OODA loop, I suspect that you are just throwing that in as hand-waving jargon. Your logic does not hold, even given your premises.

"Recognizing slide lock" is not a robust and reliable combative technique under stress in a variety of conditions.
So you say. I hope you realize that repetition does not make it anymore so.

Combative manipulations may take a a little longer to perform but they're designed to be robust and reliable in a variety of conditions.
Except that earlier you were telling us that it was all about doing things "quickly". Yes, you are contradicting yourself. There's nothing "robust" or reliable about adding unnecessary steps to a procedure.

Perhaps you have not thought this through as carefully as you imagine. If you are trolling ... well played, sir ... well played.

Last edited by zombietactics; November 22, 2013 at 06:18 PM.
zombietactics is offline  
Page generated in 0.03527 seconds with 8 queries