The Firing Line Forums - View Single Post

Fishorman · May 23, 2004, 01:25 PM

Well, I am not sure what happened last night/this morning, but I was unable to make it back into the forums for quite awhile. So, I was forced to only post over at my blog... I will now copy that post here. By the way, thanks for all the support/information. Specifically, those not really in favor of me open carrying. Like I said in my original post I still don't think keeping the "good" guns hidden is really helping the cause either. Many people have seen me with my handgun; cashiers, customers, and sadly police. Now, I for one am always very friendly, (well, not with the police so much), and the last thing they usually notice is the gun. I can't imagine that after walking away from those folks, they had a bad impression about guns, (or this gun nut). [The police are another matter. They know handguns are good and legal, but still they want the monoply on them. In that way they have choosen their side.]

Obviously, some of sheep have gotten a bad impression and 911 has been called. But, two 911 calls out of I'm guessing around 50 people seeing a handgun and thinking nothing of it. It still might not be enough to keep up with main stream media, but I am only one person.

Here's what I was thinking this morning:

RCW 9.41.270

Weapons apparently capable of producing bodily harm -- Unlawful carrying or handling -- Penalty -- Exceptions.

(1) It shall be unlawful for any person to carry, exhibit, display, or draw any firearm, dagger, sword, knife or other cutting or stabbing instrument, club, or any other weapon apparently capable of producing bodily harm, in a manner, under circumstances, and at a time and place that either manifests an intent to intimidate another or that warrants alarm for the safety of other persons.

(2) Any person violating the provisions of subsection (1) above shall be guilty of a gross misdemeanor. If any person is convicted of a violation of subsection (1) of this section, the person shall lose his or her concealed pistol license, if any. The court shall send notice of the revocation to the department of licensing, and the city, town, or county which issued the license.

I am just being informed of this 9.41.070, (of course, after the fact). I have already walked thru this town to the gun store to buy a clip and was approached by officer's in the gun store. The local prosecutor stopped by the store a few days later to find out what had happened and saw nothing wrong to issue a violation of law. Whether or not that is because he is gun friendly or because he couldn't see a way to apply 9.41.070, I am not sure.

That case is over with either way. The case now at hand is someone calling 911 because they got scared. The bank manager might have just wanted an officer there while he asked me not to return to the store open carrying, (but that's not what it felt like). Either way this is something the prosecutor might try turning into a 9.41.070 issue.

Having carried the gun across town, should mean something. Having gone to the bank before carrying, should mean something. (I am welcomed by the local Bi-Mart manager). Going to the bank to withdraw $400 should mean something. But, I have no way of controlling other's attitude about guns and their fear.

It seems the law is written for those actually doing some kind of action. Such as uncovering a concealed weapon, but it is written just vagually enough to piss me off.... ugh... anyway... I guess time will tell.

"in a manner, under circumstances, and at a time and place that either manifests an intent to intimidate another or that warrants alarm for the safety of other persons."

That is what might try to get proven beyond a reasonable doubt. Manifests an intent to intimidate seems like a big stretch. "Warrants alarm" not sure what the heck that could mean... more later

Update: Ok, I have thought about it... read up on it and decided everyone is right. This law in effect makes this a very, very unfriendly state to open carry, if not outright illegal in most situations. But, this poorly written law is not going to be the reason I walk away from this issue. This law was not written with the intent of taking away the RIGHT to open carry. It will not be the reason I kiss the king's ars, pay more taxes, and submit to proving I am innocent before I can have a permit for the "right" to conceal carry...

I will continue to open carry. I have drawn a line in the sand. We have allowed ignorance of the sheep, because we haven't taken a stand, when we could have... I was one of the sheep then, so maybe, it's too late for me... I risk being the unarmed civilian, or the armed criminal for the rest of my life. Big deal! Laws have surrounded us making us all criminals... Keep tiptoeing if you like, but, that is not the respect that the law abiding gun carrying civilian deserves.

May 23, 2004, 01:25 PM	#25
Fishorman Member Join Date: May 22, 2004 Posts: 42	Well, I am not sure what happened last night/this morning, but I was unable to make it back into the forums for quite awhile. So, I was forced to only post over at my blog... I will now copy that post here. By the way, thanks for all the support/information. Specifically, those not really in favor of me open carrying. Like I said in my original post I still don't think keeping the "good" guns hidden is really helping the cause either. Many people have seen me with my handgun; cashiers, customers, and sadly police. Now, I for one am always very friendly, (well, not with the police so much), and the last thing they usually notice is the gun. I can't imagine that after walking away from those folks, they had a bad impression about guns, (or this gun nut). [The police are another matter. They know handguns are good and legal, but still they want the monoply on them. In that way they have choosen their side.] Obviously, some of sheep have gotten a bad impression and 911 has been called. But, two 911 calls out of I'm guessing around 50 people seeing a handgun and thinking nothing of it. It still might not be enough to keep up with main stream media, but I am only one person. Here's what I was thinking this morning: RCW 9.41.270 Weapons apparently capable of producing bodily harm -- Unlawful carrying or handling -- Penalty -- Exceptions. (1) It shall be unlawful for any person to carry, exhibit, display, or draw any firearm, dagger, sword, knife or other cutting or stabbing instrument, club, or any other weapon apparently capable of producing bodily harm, in a manner, under circumstances, and at a time and place that either manifests an intent to intimidate another or that warrants alarm for the safety of other persons. (2) Any person violating the provisions of subsection (1) above shall be guilty of a gross misdemeanor. If any person is convicted of a violation of subsection (1) of this section, the person shall lose his or her concealed pistol license, if any. The court shall send notice of the revocation to the department of licensing, and the city, town, or county which issued the license. I am just being informed of this 9.41.070, (of course, after the fact). I have already walked thru this town to the gun store to buy a clip and was approached by officer's in the gun store. The local prosecutor stopped by the store a few days later to find out what had happened and saw nothing wrong to issue a violation of law. Whether or not that is because he is gun friendly or because he couldn't see a way to apply 9.41.070, I am not sure. That case is over with either way. The case now at hand is someone calling 911 because they got scared. The bank manager might have just wanted an officer there while he asked me not to return to the store open carrying, (but that's not what it felt like). Either way this is something the prosecutor might try turning into a 9.41.070 issue. Having carried the gun across town, should mean something. Having gone to the bank before carrying, should mean something. (I am welcomed by the local Bi-Mart manager). Going to the bank to withdraw $400 should mean something. But, I have no way of controlling other's attitude about guns and their fear. It seems the law is written for those actually doing some kind of action. Such as uncovering a concealed weapon, but it is written just vagually enough to piss me off.... ugh... anyway... I guess time will tell. "in a manner, under circumstances, and at a time and place that either manifests an intent to intimidate another or that warrants alarm for the safety of other persons." That is what might try to get proven beyond a reasonable doubt. Manifests an intent to intimidate seems like a big stretch. "Warrants alarm" not sure what the heck that could mean... more later Update: Ok, I have thought about it... read up on it and decided everyone is right. This law in effect makes this a very, very unfriendly state to open carry, if not outright illegal in most situations. But, this poorly written law is not going to be the reason I walk away from this issue. This law was not written with the intent of taking away the RIGHT to open carry. It will not be the reason I kiss the king's ars, pay more taxes, and submit to proving I am innocent before I can have a permit for the "right" to conceal carry... I will continue to open carry. I have drawn a line in the sand. We have allowed ignorance of the sheep, because we haven't taken a stand, when we could have... I was one of the sheep then, so maybe, it's too late for me... I risk being the unarmed civilian, or the armed criminal for the rest of my life. Big deal! Laws have surrounded us making us all criminals... Keep tiptoeing if you like, but, that is not the respect that the law abiding gun carrying civilian deserves.