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Old May 29, 2025, 02:20 PM   #484
davidsog
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Join Date: January 13, 2018
Posts: 1,660
Quote:
But what about the age old argument about the Mustang vs Spitfire?

Spitfire fans, late war marks will argue to the end of the earth how it would best a P-51D in a one on one dogfight.
Well, there is a reason why The Spitfire is now NATO's first line air superiority fighter today.

A couple of concepts that are key to understanding aircraft performance.

1. All airplanes at the same angle of bank and velocity make exactly the same turn.

2. Power Available to Power required IS the determining factor in all aircraft performance.

Number 1 means turn performance isn't the be all end all of a dogfighter.

You can see that in this flight test of the FW-190 and P47D conducted by the USAAF in WWII.

The FW-190 is greatly superior to the P47 in level sustained turn performance below 250mph. They are not even close. The FW190 turns a faster rate and smaller radius because it can sustain an angle of bank and velocity the P47 cannot fly at.

At higher speeds and altitudes, that relationship changes....
The P47 simply has much more Power Available to Power required and can turn that into greatly superior turn performance.



Notice the USAAF instructions for the P47 pilot to use an "oblique" turn. The Luftwaffe pilots calls this an "egg shaped turn". It is simply a technique that shifts a portion of weight to the Power Available side of our Power Available to Power required increasing our turn performance. Bud Anderson called it "The Luftwaffe Stomp" because it was a common technique used by German pilots who generally flew heavier, higher wing loaded, aircraft than their adversaries.

You can also see the advantages of a supercharger vs turbocharging in the discussion of the FW-190s ability to get instant power changes to take advantage of opportunities in a dogfight.

How does this relate to your P51 vs Spitfire debate?

Airplanes are flown by their "numbers". Maximum performance occurs at specific airspeeds. Good Pilots know their aircraft performance numbers and use that to extract the performance they need.

If your aircraft's performance numbers are faster than your opponents and you fly those numbers then you have an advantage in the dogfight.

The P51's numbers are faster than the Spitfires in general making it the superior dogfighter despite not being able to turn as tightly at the slower speeds the Spitfire can attain. That depends greatly on which P51 and which Spitfire model. Piston engine fighters were at the pinnacle of their development at the end of WWII. There really isn't much to choose from no matter what as long as the aircraft were at that developmental level.

That is why the P51 has more kills than the Spitfire despite a much shorter time in combat.
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Last edited by davidsog; May 29, 2025 at 02:39 PM.
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