The Firing Line Forums - View Single Post - Reddot, .45acp, 230grn LRN, Flattened Primers...

**44 AMP** · December 11, 2014, 01:16 PM

It's not the Red Dot, alone, its the Red Dot, your charge, your other components, AND YOUR GUN, all together.

A quick check in an old book shows Red Dot max being around 5gr for 225/230gr bullets (5.3gr in the Lyman manual). Half a grain (or even a full grain) isn't very much weight. As others have mentioned, check your scale, and check your powder delivery system (measure?) You might not be actually getting what you think you are getting.

Another factor is the primers. ANY change can change what is "normal" in appearance. Even changes in lot#s can have an effect, though they seldom do.

Probably the most important factory is your gun. FORGET what the books say as max, when you get pressure signs, you should consider that load MAX for that particular combination. And that combination includes YOUR gun.

It doesn't matter (much) if the load is close to the listed max, or somewhere below it if you are getting cratered primers then its max for your gun with that combination of components. And, by MAX, I mean where you ought to stop, NOT what is dangerous and will blow up your gun. The point is to stop before you reach that point.

I once had a load (using Unique) that drove the 200gr Speer JHP at a clocked 998fps from a 4.25" barrel SIg P220. Recoil was "snappy" but there were no pressure signs on the primer or case.

SAME ammo, one mag fired through my buddies comp'd 1911A1 pin gun, every round had badly cratered primers. IT wasn't the ammo, it was the combination of the ammo, and the gun. Not all combinations are suitable. Not all guns will handle things the same, and while most do behave very similarly, there are exceptions.

If your weights are spot on, and you are delivering the right charge weight, then its your gun, and that particular mix of components you are using.

WLP primers might or might not give you the same results with the same load in your gun. Only testing will tell you.

No matter what the published data says you ought to be able to do, what you can actually do is dependent on your gun, and your combination of components, and can be quite different from the ones they used testing their data.

If you get cratered primers, it's a sign. Don't increase the powder any more, and consider backing off a bit. No matter what kind of performance you are getting from the muzzle. IF its not the performance you want, then you need to look at a different combination of components, for your gun.

If you have access to a different .45, test some of that load in it, and see what it does. It might be different. Then again, it might not. Only testing (shooting) will tell you.

December 11, 2014, 01:16 PM	#11
44 AMP Staff Join Date: March 11, 2006 Location: Upper US Posts: 30,479	Its not the Red Dot, alone... It's not the Red Dot, alone, its the Red Dot, your charge, your other components, AND YOUR GUN, all together. A quick check in an old book shows Red Dot max being around 5gr for 225/230gr bullets (5.3gr in the Lyman manual). Half a grain (or even a full grain) isn't very much weight. As others have mentioned, check your scale, and check your powder delivery system (measure?) You might not be actually getting what you think you are getting. Another factor is the primers. ANY change can change what is "normal" in appearance. Even changes in lot#s can have an effect, though they seldom do. Probably the most important factory is your gun. FORGET what the books say as max, when you get pressure signs, you should consider that load MAX for that particular combination. And that combination includes YOUR gun. It doesn't matter (much) if the load is close to the listed max, or somewhere below it if you are getting cratered primers then its max for your gun with that combination of components. And, by MAX, I mean where you ought to stop, NOT what is dangerous and will blow up your gun. The point is to stop before you reach that point. I once had a load (using Unique) that drove the 200gr Speer JHP at a clocked 998fps from a 4.25" barrel SIg P220. Recoil was "snappy" but there were no pressure signs on the primer or case. SAME ammo, one mag fired through my buddies comp'd 1911A1 pin gun, every round had badly cratered primers. IT wasn't the ammo, it was the combination of the ammo, and the gun. Not all combinations are suitable. Not all guns will handle things the same, and while most do behave very similarly, there are exceptions. If your weights are spot on, and you are delivering the right charge weight, then its your gun, and that particular mix of components you are using. WLP primers might or might not give you the same results with the same load in your gun. Only testing will tell you. No matter what the published data says you ought to be able to do, what you can actually do is dependent on your gun, and your combination of components, and can be quite different from the ones they used testing their data. If you get cratered primers, it's a sign. Don't increase the powder any more, and consider backing off a bit. No matter what kind of performance you are getting from the muzzle. IF its not the performance you want, then you need to look at a different combination of components, for your gun. If you have access to a different .45, test some of that load in it, and see what it does. It might be different. Then again, it might not. Only testing (shooting) will tell you. __________________ All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.