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Old April 22, 2013, 01:12 PM   #467
Join Date: October 15, 2002
Location: Arkansas, USA
Posts: 73
I'm a bit late on this, I've been gone for a while, just found my way back. But in response tothe OP

I'm going to pre-empt this with some caveats.
1) I've been around firearms all my life
2) I was military, now work for LE
3) I own and will always
4) I am not a democrat, or progressive, I'm an unaffiliated independent who thinks both parties are FUBAR

However, I've been a little disturbed by some people refusing any way shape or form of background checks. Personally, I like selling to someone I KNOW has been at least minimally vetted. The system is far from perfect, granted, but it is a much better system than saying something like you can sniff out a bad guy during your 5 minute meeting with cash in hand and deny the sale based on your gut.

I personally believe that, without any associated government record keeping, continued use of 4473 (and prosecution of liars on the form) is a good thing. It is responsible gun ownership... how I was raised.

To sell to someone without this, in my opinion, is a behavior that should be checked. You simply cannot know if the person is a sociopath.

Force them to go to the black market, which they will always be able too... but when they do, and they go kill people, and it comes back that the gun wasn't legally purchased, it helps our cause... because the media can't say, "look how easy it is to buy guns!".

Lanza actually WAS stopped by gun control. He tried to buy in CT two days before the massacre, and was turned down.
The problem? His mother was an irresponsible creature who left guns within easy reach of an autistic kid (basically Asperger's, which is a form of Autism) with other serious problems who was obsessed with guns, violent games, and his being turned down for military service. Not good.

In 2002-2003, over 120k form 4473s led to rejection. This is a good thing. The DoJ only prosecuted less than 1% of them, however, which is a bad thing. At a minimum, we know some of those people went on to get guns, though they shouldn't have them... but, wasn't it good that all of them didn't get them? Can we work on the system and make it good, so less killings are likely, which will create better statistics to boost our argument for future occurences?

I think the knee-jerk "no compromise" position is a classic case of cutting off one's nose despite one's face.

Can 4473, expanded to all transfers between strangers, be ok under the right conditions?
I've started a grass roots idea that so far goes something like this
The biggest hurdle to passing new background checks for gun owners, is the risk of that data being used to compile a list of all gun owners. Which brings the inevitable attempt somewhere down the line of forced confiscation, given that the gun grabbing party will have a list of targets to go after. As I see it there is only one way to avoid this - remove the connection of background check from the action of gun purchasing. This means doing a background check on EVERYONE - once.

This can be accomplished by doing an NICS background check on each and every person and providing proof of pass/fail status. I would propose that this be done at the next renewal date for the person operators license or photo ID. The status of the NICS check would be posted on the photo ID - that status will not change unless there is legal action toward that person - in the case of that legal action, the photo ID would be updated IMMEDIATELY, so it would remain up to date and current. At that point ALL firearm sales would have the requirement that the seller check the photo ID of the buyer, not just for verification that the buyer resides in the same state (because interstate sales will still require the use of an FFL, due to the interstate commerce clause), but also to verify that the CURRENT status of the last NICS check is a a Pass and the buyer is a lawful person to sell to.

Problem solved - no potentially abusable database created.

The only people that could possibly have a problem with this would be criminals who do not wish to be found, and those whose real purpose was the database they wished to abuse in the first place.
Rip away legal eagles.
The opinion of 10,000 men is of no value if none of them know anything about the subject.
- Marcus Aurelius -

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