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Old March 23, 2013, 01:06 PM   #33
Frank Ettin
Join Date: November 23, 2005
Location: California - San Francisco
Posts: 8,701
Originally Posted by elDiabloLoco
If Swiss gun ownership is supposed to be a model, then all attributes of their process are material.
If material, their framework is in far more conflict with the RKBA than our own already over zealous codified infringements. ...
Yes indeed. It is. And by proposing your argument you have demonstrated that you apparently don't understand argument, evidence, or proof.

You claim that the results in Switzerland demonstrate that possession by citizens of military weapons:
...Doesn't seem to be the cause problems for the Swiss...
But those results can only demonstrate that under the circumstances that exist in Switzerland, i. e., Swiss culture, required military training, gun licenses, background checks, registration, etc., those results occur. The results in Switzerland can not demonstrate that similar results may be expected under different circumstances.

Originally Posted by elDiabloLoco
...Your premise rejects the possibility that citizens might be able to manage their own affairs locally and that current law,...
But you don't understand my premise. My premise is simply that your use of Switzerland and Israel to support your advocacy of the RKBA is specious and useless. If you really want to effectively advocate for the RKBA, you need to understand the facts better.

Originally Posted by elDiabloLoco
...If RKBA is a right, why do I need a permit? "Because the court said so". Well, yeah, but were they correct when they said so? [me: NO]...
But here you miss the point that in the real world what the courts say on matters of law, including the Constitution, trumps your opinion. Why? Because the Founding Fathers said so (Constitution of the United States, Article III, Sections 1 and 2):
Section 1. The judicial Power of the United States, shall be vested in one supreme Court, and in such inferior Courts as the Congress may from time to time ordain and establish....

Section 2. The Judicial Power shall extend to all Cases, in Law and Equity, arising under this Constitution,...
The exercise of judicial power and the deciding of cases arising under the Constitution necessarily involves interpreting and applying the Constitution to the circumstances of the matter in controversy in order to decide the dispute.

Originally Posted by elDiabloLoco
...O'course, Juris Doctors may feel differently. Thar's beaucoup money in them thar infringements and associated petty tyrant whispering....
Nonetheless, in the real world things are as they are.
"It is long been a principle of ours that one is no more armed because he has possession of a firearm than he is a musician because he owns a piano. There is no point in having a gun if you are not capable of using it skillfully." -- Jeff Cooper

Last edited by Frank Ettin; March 23, 2013 at 01:26 PM. Reason: clarify
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