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Old February 6, 2013, 07:56 PM   #11
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Join Date: July 10, 1999
Location: High Desert NV
Posts: 2,576
Originally Posted by 30-30remchester
I have studied terminal ballistics for 4 decades now

Originally Posted by 30-30remchester
The US is currently using hp ammo which is a violation of the Hauge convention.
No. You are completely wrong.

Open Tip Match: When a “Hollow Point” is Not a Hollow Point

Sniper Use of Open-Tip Ammunition, W. Hays Parks, Colonel, USMC,
Chief of the JAG's International Law Branch

For those too lazy to read the links, The Hague accords do not cover hollow point bullets, they cover
Originally Posted by Hague Declaration Concerning Expanding Bullets of 29 July 1899
...bullets which expand or flatten easily in the human body, such as bullets with a hard envelope which does not entirely cover the core or is pierced with incisions
Some hollow point bullets certainly fit this category, but not all. Match HP bullets, such as the Sierra MatchKings used by the military are designed to be consistent and accurate, with no regard given at all for expansion. The fact they have an open tip is because of how they were manufactured, and has nothing to do with expansion.

Tests have shown they SMK's don't behave terminally any different than FMJ bullets. For this reason, Sierra states on every page of their load manuals with data for MatchKings: "Sierra does not recommend MatchKing bullets for hunting applications".

I am surprised someone who has studied terminal ballistics for 40 years wouldn't know this.

Originally Posted by 30-30remchester
As I understand it, the government is not bound by this convention at this time as we are fighting non uniformed terrorists, not identifyable combantants, thus the use of this ammo is not in violation of the law. The above sentence I have heard but have not confirmed. Can anyone shed so light on this subject?
Actually while the US does adhere to the Hague accords, we were not part of the Hague declaration, so we would not be "bound" by them in any way.

Even if match hollow point ammunition was covered by them (which it isn't).

Now, to the original question, I have used some of the .308 110gr HP Sierra "Varminter" bullets in my .308 Win on Ground squirrels, and they worked as advertised, although the accuracy wasn't great in my rifle.

I have also used the 168gr SMK in my M1 and they work quite well for target shooting.
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