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Old December 30, 2012, 10:02 PM   #45
Senior Member
Join Date: July 10, 1999
Location: High Desert NV
Posts: 2,588
Originally Posted by Bart B
True, but only when shot in an indoor range where there are absolutely no wind currents and the rifle's held by a 3-point supported free recoiling cradle in a machine rest.

In the real world, here's what happens.
Again, it depends on what your goal is, or how you define "success".

I agree nobody is going to set a world record with a 2 MOA rifle, then again I never made that claim. You are pretty unlikely to shoot top score of a match, but there is more to LR shooting than winning. When I competed, I never had any illusions of doing so, nor was it my goal. I wanted to challenge myself, improve my scores, and have fun.

There are those that think that you cannot take a shot at 1000 yards without dropping a few grand on a custom LR rig. I am saying that is nonsense. An modern off the shelf .308 rifle from a big-box store, with quality match ammo or good handloads should be capable of cleaning a 1000 yard target.

I am not talking about wind, I am not talking about the shooters hold, I am just talking about the rifle, from a pure accuracy standpoint.

It is not a guarantee by any means (nor is a $5K custom rig), but it will shoot better than most beginning shooters, and probably will for some time.

Most deer hunters probably already have a rifle capable of doing so in the closet. It might not be the best option, but pretty much any centerfire rifle larger than .243 is up to the task (with some obvious exceptions, 30-30, etc). All that is really needed is a tapered scope base to get the scope on target, and you can get that for under $50.

Again, not ideal. Not perfect. But adequate for someone to dip their toe in the deep end of the pool that is LR shooting.

The money not spent on a custom rifle buys a lot of ammo for practice and hopefully coaching. And if you find you don't care for it, you are not out the cost of a custom rifle.

Originally Posted by old roper
does it bother you as much if short yardage shot may be unethical.
Of course. Slob hunters will always be out there, but that doesn't mean we need to encourage more of them, because they saw some assclown shoot an elk at 1000 yards on YouTube.

Originally Posted by old roper
I'm not trying to pick a fight with you I've passed on more short yardage shots than I have on LR hunting deer/elk. You are right on LR yardage and effect it has but it will also happen at short yardage. Bad shot is a bad shot doesn't matter which yardage and one you never want to happen.
Getting the range call on a ~1000 yard animal off by 2.5% will make one of the the best LR cartridges (338 Lapua) off by a foot of elevation. Getting the range wrong by 2.5% on a ~200 yard target will put your elevation off with the same cartridge by less than a quarter inch.

Getting the wind wrong by the same 2.5% (10 mpg to 12.5 mph full value) on a ~1000 yard animal with the same cartridge, your will be off by about a foot. With a 200 yard animal you will miss your point of aim by about a half inch.

Bart is one of the most experienced LR shooters on the forum, he just said they "throw parties" if they keep all their shots inside 25 inches at 1000 yards. He did not mention, that this is at a relatively flat, surveyed range, with sighters, corrections made shot to shot, wind flags, a known distance, and a logbook showing their sight settings from the last time they shot there.

Hunters don't generally have such luxuries. You need a first shot, cold barrel hit on a ~12-18" circle at unknown ranges, probably from an improvised position (prone with a bipod if you are lucky). This is not even addressing other variables like terrain and it's effects on wind, elevation/density altitude and it's effect on trajectory, slope to target, etc.

Very few people have any business shooting at game at those ranges, and if you need to ask on an internet forum about it, you ain't one of them.
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