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Old December 5, 2012, 10:31 PM   #31
Senior Member
Join Date: November 15, 2007
Location: Outside KC, MO
Posts: 10,128
Hal, I haven't read anything further about the snatcher. If he has been apprehended, as far as I know, he's been arrested for some other crime.

Nate45, I think you were the one who said we can assume the police knew what they were doing when they made the arrest, and will be fair: That may be, but how many trainers have told us to expect to be arrested if we use a gun, period? EVERY trainer I know says to expect that. The bias is to make an arrest, not to simply write a report, except in states that prohibit arrests unless strong prima facia evidence exists that deadly force, or the threat of deadly force, were unjustified. I don't know if NM is one of those states. I do know that within gun-friendly NM, Albuequerque and Santa Fe are not considered gun-friendly; kind of like Denver and Boulder as opposed to Colorado, Atlanta as opposed to Georgia, or Philly as opposed to Pennsylvania.

Patriot86, if Williams is of similar age to Rodriguez, of similar size to Rodriguez, and has no infirmities that have not yet been reported, he is probably in trouble. If a jury decides Williams could have safely retreated, even if any of the above conditions were not true, he could still be in trouble.

We don't know enough about either man; we don't know if Williams could reasonably have retreated without harm.

I do wish we could do experiments, from time to time, with some of the more strident folk in the forum. Such as:

1) You try to retreat to your car, while I (or one of my larger friends, if need be) decide not to let you get into the car; you should wear body armor and helmet, so the door won't be as likely to damage your body parts when I kick or body slam it shut on you;

2) You lie on the ground, and let me (or one of my larger friends, if need be) get on top of you and start slamming your head into the ground; see how many impacts you take before you decide that, yep, you'd draw and shoot even though I am not (or my large friend is not) armed;

3) You let me surprise you, and get whatever lock I choose; then, see if you can draw and pepper spray me, without pepper spraying yourself. (Good odds you won't be able to draw, and good odds you will spray both of us if you do.)

My point being, lots of people focus on armed vs unarmed, and there is a reason that they do; lots of people focus on retreat, and there's a reason that they do. But totality of situations can be vastly different than what they seem on the surface, and the real risks that roil beneath might really unnerve people if they were to encounter them firsthand.

And, like I said, most people (and most courts) would never allow such experiments. Most people really do not want their eyes opened as to what another human could do to them, in minimal time.
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